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Thread: Morally Wrong Behavior vs. What the Civil Government Should Prohibit

  1. #121
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Idiot - according to your own religion the reason why Islam, Judaism or Christianity accepted slavery was because God never forbade slavery until your prophet came along. So blame God.... And I will ask again - was the Bab doing anything immoral by owning a slave? I'll be waiting for your answer.
    Idiot, not that is not the reason. Humanity spiritually evolves through Revelation just as we physically evolves

    The Bab was a Prophet Messiah of a previous Revelation to that of the Baha'u'llah just as Jesus and Muhammod were.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #122
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    First you say we follow the mores of the day then you say we resist the mores of the day like the emancipation of women.
    Yes, we follow the social mores of the day. They evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time. But religion has a history of resisting many such changes in the name of religion, the emancipation of women being but one example.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  3. #123
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Idiot, not that is not the reason. Humanity spiritually evolves through Revelation just as we physically evolves

    The Bab was a Prophet Messiah of a previous Revelation to that of the Baha'u'llah just as Jesus and Muhammod were.
    Again Shuny, was it immoral for the Bab to own slaves? Yes or no?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqgC1tqifV8

  4. #124
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Yes, we follow the social mores of the day. They evolve and vary to a degree from culture to culture over time. But religion has a history of resisting many such changes in the name of religion, the emancipation of women being but one example.
    You can't have it both ways Tass, first you say that Christians follow the mores of the day, then you say they resist those mores.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqgC1tqifV8

  5. #125
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Again Shuny, was it immoral for the Bab to own slaves? Yes or no?
    Spiritual laws do not equate to morality nor ethics. By definition they are social standards of behavior and vary for culture to culture. Tory he Spiritual Laws of the Revelations of God are beyond the diverse and often contradictory morals and ethics of cultures in the History of humanity.

    Revelations Reveals spiritual laws progressively over the history of humanity. The spiritual laws of the Bab did not include a law against slavery. That is a spiritual law under Baha'u'llah. The Bab stated that He was only the Door for the advent of Baha'u'llah, and His Revelation only lasted a short span, and acknowledged the limits of His Revelation. Baha'u''lah's life and actions are witness to His Revelation.

    The problem is you do not believe anything of the Revelations of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, and you have sidestepped the Fact that the Bible does not have any spiritual law prohibiting slavery, and Many Christians owned, bought and sold slaves and referred to the Bible to justify their actions.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-21-2020 at 05:01 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  6. #126
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Spiritual laws do not equate to morality nor ethics. By definition they are social standards of behavior and vary for culture to culture. Tory he Spiritual Laws of the Revelations of God are beyond the diverse and often contradictory morals and ethics of cultures in the History of humanity.

    Revelations Reveals spiritual laws progressively over the history of humanity. The spiritual laws of the Bab did not include a law against slavery. That is a spiritual law under Baha'u'llah. The Bab stated that He was only the Door for the advent of Baha'u'llah, and His Revelation only lasted a short span, and acknowledged the limits of His Revelation. Baha'u''lah's life and actions are witness to His Revelation.

    The problem is you do not believe anything of the Revelations of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, and you have sidestepped the Fact that the Bible does not have any spiritual law prohibiting slavery, and Many Christians owned, bought and sold slaves and referred to the Bible to justify their actions.
    So the Bab was not doing anything wrong by owning a slave. And neither were the other slave owners before that time. Thank goodness that Christians began ending the slave trade in the West before Baha'u'llah came along.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqgC1tqifV8

  7. #127
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    So the Bab was not doing anything wrong by owning a slave. And neither were the other slave owners before that time. Thank goodness that Christians began ending the slave trade in the West before Baha'u'llah came along.
    This an assumption on your part that is unwarranted that no one in the Islamic world opposed slavery. The following reference describes opposition to slavery in different religions and covers Islam, but like all ancient religions including Christianity many believers owned slaves, because their scriptures lacked a spiritual law forbidding slavery. I cannot copy out of the text, but it is an easy read: http://www.lse.ac.uk/Economic-Histor...renceSmith.pdf



    This abundantly true of Christians. With no spiritual laws against slavery many many Christians owned, bought and sold slaves and justified this based on their scriptures. Your continually avoiding the fact. Baha'u'llah was the first Abrahamic religion to forbid slavery. This remains a fact you choose to ignore.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  8. #128
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    You can't have it both ways Tass, first you say that Christians follow the mores of the day, then you say they resist those mores.
    Christians usually conform to the social mores of the day despite initial resistance in some instances.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  9. #129
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    This an assumption on your part that is unwarranted that no one in the Islamic world opposed slavery. The following reference describes opposition to slavery in different religions and covers Islam, but like all ancient religions including Christianity many believers owned slaves, because their scriptures lacked a spiritual law forbidding slavery. I cannot copy out of the text, but it is an easy read: http://www.lse.ac.uk/Economic-Histor...renceSmith.pdf



    This abundantly true of Christians. With no spiritual laws against slavery many many Christians owned, bought and sold slaves and justified this based on their scriptures. Your continually avoiding the fact. Baha'u'llah was the first Abrahamic religion to forbid slavery. This remains a fact you choose to ignore.
    What is your point? You said spiritual laws did not forbid slavery until Baha'u'llah. So according to your religion slavery as practiced by Jews, Muslims and Christians broke no Spiritual law. Therefore not a violation or sin. As a matter of fact two manifestations of God, Moses and Muhammad, supported and regulated slavery. Perfectly acceptable.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqgC1tqifV8

  10. #130
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Christians usually conform to the social mores of the day despite initial resistance in some instances.
    Nonsense. Tell me what mores do I or my church conform to? The largest Christian denomination is the Catholic Church, what modern moral values have they conformed to. Be specific.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqgC1tqifV8

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