Morally Wrong Behavior vs. What the Civil Government Should Prohibit

[seer]

Patriarchal societies are a moral good, after all it was men who gave women the right to vote here in the US.

Neither you nor the government has the right to dictate how we organize our Churches.


What do you mean throughout Christian history? Where was racism practice throughout Christian history?

Your religion recognized forms of slavery for centuries, it tolerated Inquisitions, witch-killing, discrimination against blacks, the subjugation of women and much more that the social mores of today would not tolerate.

Why are the social mores of today correct?

[shunyadragon]

I have no problem, according to your religion God didn't have a problem with slavery either - for three thousand years. It can't be that big of a deal.

I guess it is no big deal for you, because you still believe in and endorse forms of slavery as you selectively define in the Bible, which is very bad clinging to an ancient world view, as Tassman pointed out.

[Tassman]

Patriarchal societies are a moral good, after all it was men who gave women the right to vote here in the US.

Neither you nor the government has the right to dictate how we organize our Churches.

What do you mean throughout Christian history? Where was racism practice throughout Christian history?

Why are the social mores of today correct?

[seer]

Oh please, "patriarchy" gave us the most free, prosperous nations on earth. Stop being such a nancy boy...

Sorry, I will not be lectured by a moral relativist. Where human rights are merely a matter of cultural preferences.

[shunyadragon]

Sorry, I will not be lectured by a moral relativist. Where human rights are merely a matter of cultural preferences.

This sounds like your cultural relativist justification for some kinds of slavery based on Hebrew cultural concepts of human rights.

[Tassman]

Oh please, "patriarchy" gave us the most free, prosperous nations on earth.

Patriarchy also gave us Genghis Khan, your point?

Stop being such a nancy boy...

?

Sorry, I will not be lectured by a moral relativist. Where human rights are merely a matter of cultural preferences.

Social values historically evolve and vary over time - including Christian cultures.

[seer]

Patriarchy also gave us Genghis Khan, your point?

Be grateful for what your forefathers created for you, the freedom and luxury you enjoy today.

Social values historically evolve and vary over time - including Christian cultures.

So values change? So what? And my values track pretty close to New Testament principles. As it is with most Bible believing Christians I know.

[JimL]

No easy answers. Yet we generally have a consensus that things that do physical harm or defraud or things like stealing should be prohibit. When I was growing up though things like adultery, fornication, homosexuality were against the law, even felonies. You could not open a business on Sunday or hunt.

So, do you think the latter things should be against the law? Why or why not?

[JimL]

Religious zealots!

Exactly!

[seer]

So, do you think the latter things should be against the law? Why or why not?

Of course, because they violate God's design for human sexuality.

[Tassman]

Be grateful for what your forefathers created for you, the freedom and luxury you enjoy today.

So values change?

Of course social values change. Demonstrably. We no longer treat women as chattels of men or tolerate racial discrimination etc.

And my values track pretty close to New Testament principles. As it is with most Bible believing Christians I know.

only as interpreted by the minority Christian group to which you belong. But fear not,

Of course, because they violate God's design for human sexuality.

Psychologists say you are wrong and that homosexuality is a normal variant of human (and animal) sexuality. The majority of people in the US and the free world, including Christians, accept this to be the case.

[seer]

That is just stupid, the wealth and political systems that gave rise to Western Civilization is largely due to European men. No diversity necessary.

Of course social values change. Demonstrably. We no longer treat women as chattels of men or tolerate racial discrimination etc.

But racism and treating women like chattel are not New Testament principles.

only as interpreted by the minority Christian group to which you belong. But fear not,

Where does the New Testament speak of oppressing any one?

Psychologists say you are wrong and that homosexuality is a normal variant of human (and animal) sexuality. The majority of people in the US and the free world, including Christians, accept this to be the case.

Sure and rape and pedophilia variants human of animal/sexuality.

[Tassman]

That is just stupid, the wealth and political systems that gave rise to Western Civilization is largely due to European men. No diversity necessary.

But racism and treating women like chattel are not New Testament principles.

Where does the New Testament speak of oppressing any one?

See above.

Sure and rape and pedophilia variants human of animal/sexuality.

[seer]

And why is totalitarian rule bad? But the point I was making is that diversity was not necessary to create Western Civilization, nor is diversity necessarily a good. It could in fact undermine social cohesion.



Nonsense Tass, again I will ask where does the NT tell us to oppress anyone? Are we not taught to love our fellow man, and to follow the golden rule? Again, what do I believe that is different from the NT writers?



Now you are moving the goal posts, you were speaking of variants of human/animal sexuality. Which both rape and pedophilia are. Now you are pointing to consent! You think our primate cousins care about consent? So now you are attaching a moral judgement to natural sexual behavior. Talk about justifying personal opinions!

[JimL]

Of course, because they violate God's design for human sexuality.

So you'd prefer to live in a theocracy?