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Impeachment: Republican Senators leaving Senate Chamber During Impeachment Trial

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  • #31
    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    As you are well aware of, they tried and were blocked by the president during the impeachment hearings, but won't be blocked if they are called at trial. McConnell's problem, his responsibility, is to seek the truth, not to complain about process like you would have him do. I don't believe you have yet explained why you're afraid of hearing from these witnesses, or seeing the documentary evidence, MM. Why don't you just tell the truth?
    Oh mean when the Democrats did no actual subpoenas and refused to allow the administrations lawyers to be present when those from the Administration they wanted to interrogate? Then showed they were to afraid to go through the court system to try and force this true obstruction of JUSTICE they tried to pull? Jiml stop letting others do your thinking for you look at all the facts not just those from the MSM and Democrats

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    • #32
      Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
      Oh mean when the Democrats did no actual subpoenas and refused to allow the administrations lawyers to be present when those from the Administration they wanted to interrogate? Then showed they were to afraid to go through the court system to try and force this true obstruction of JUSTICE they tried to pull? Jiml stop letting others do your thinking for you look at all the facts not just those from the MSM and Democrats
      I just want to differentiate between the "subpoenas" issued by Schiff and his gang from those issued by other committees including AFAICT Nadler's. The latter seem to be fully legitimate but Schiff's had no legal standing which is why he dropped them like a hot potato the moment that Charles Kupperman asked the courts for guidance in the conflicting demands of Executive Privilege and his subpoenas.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #33
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I just want to differentiate between the "subpoenas" issued by Schiff and his gang from those issued by other committees including AFAICT Nadler's. The latter seem to be fully legitimate but Schiff's had no legal standing which is why he dropped them like a hot potato the moment that Charles Kupperman asked the courts for guidance in the conflicting demands of Executive Privilege and his subpoenas.
        I stand corrected but Nadler also did not go to the courts I wonder why is it because since he didn't want the Administration's lawyers to protect Executive Privilege and knew the courts would force him to allow them? Shows which party doesn't' care about the Constitution and is truly trying to Obstruct Justice. And it isn't the Republicans those of us who think for ourselves understand that.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
          ...they tried and were blocked by the president during the impeachment hearings...
          Right, and the Democrats never bothered to argue it before a judge to prove they had the legal sufficiency and judicial authority to overcome executive privilege. Which, again, is not McConnell's problem. The defense only has to respond to the case that has actually been presented and not the case the prosecution could theoretically present if they had been more diligent during the fact-finding phase.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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          • #35
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            I just want to differentiate between the "subpoenas" issued by Schiff and his gang from those issued by other committees including AFAICT Nadler's. The latter seem to be fully legitimate but Schiff's had no legal standing which is why he dropped them like a hot potato the moment that Charles Kupperman asked the courts for guidance in the conflicting demands of Executive Privilege and his subpoenas.
            They dropped them because they recognized the Presidents tactic of stonewalling, as is evident in the McGahn case, would take years. The McGahn case, though already ruled on in favor of Congress by Judge Jackson, will just be appealed and appealed all the way to the SCOTUS. You people know this, but hey, whatever it takes to soothe your conscience. Besides that, just to show that you know not of what you speak, the President never once claimed executive privilege, just an across the board denial of all supoenas of witnesses and documents.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
              I stand corrected but Nadler also did not go to the courts I wonder why is it because since he didn't want the Administration's lawyers to protect Executive Privilege and knew the courts would force him to allow them? Shows which party doesn't' care about the Constitution and is truly trying to Obstruct Justice.And it isn't the Republicans those of us who think for ourselves understand that.
              Sorry, but your post shows whose doing your thinking, and it ain't you. The President never claimed executive privilege!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Right, and the Democrats never bothered to argue it before a judge to prove they had the legal sufficiency and judicial authority to overcome executive privilege. Which, again, is not McConnell's problem. The defense only has to respond to the case that has actually been presented and not the case the prosecution could theoretically present if they had been more diligent during the fact-finding phase.
                No executive privilege claimed, MM. How is it that you are all so misinformed?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                  No executive privilege claimed, MM. How is it that you are all so misinformed?
                  At any rate, the Democrats never took the subpoenas to court to compel compliance. Whether Trump officially declared executive privilege or simply told his people that they didn't have to respond is beside the point.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Right, and the Democrats never bothered to argue it before a judge to prove they had the legal sufficiency and judicial authority to overcome executive privilege. Which, again, is not McConnell's problem. The defense only has to respond to the case that has actually been presented and not the case the prosecution could theoretically present if they had been more diligent during the fact-finding phase.
                    They don't need to argue executive privilege, if executive privilege was never asserted. They did however argue in court whether or not a subpoenaed individual can defy a congressional supoena simply on the presidents say so. That was the Don McGahn case, and the Judge ruled that no he can not defy the subpoena. But of course that can be appealed and appealed for years until reaching the SCOTUS in which case it renders Congressional oversight useless and empowers the president to, as Trump put it, "do whatever he wants. Not only Trump, but any future president as well, including democrat ones. So, be mindful of what you wish for.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      They dropped them because they recognized the Presidents tactic of stonewalling, as is evident in the McGahn case, would take years. The McGahn case, though already ruled on in favor of Congress by Judge Jackson, will just be appealed and appealed all the way to the SCOTUS. You people know this, but hey, whatever it takes to soothe your conscience. Besides that, just to show that you know not of what you speak, the President never once claimed executive privilege, just an across the board denial of all supoenas of witnesses and documents.
                      Yes because no president, before Trump, ever stonewalled Congress!

                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        Yes because no president, before Trump, ever stonewalled Congress!

                        No president has ever defied the impeachment authority of congress by simply denying all subpoenas of all witnesses and all documents across the board without reason of executive privilege. But what you neglect to concern yourself with is that in abusing his power in that manner the president, basically vanquishing congressional oversight, for so long as he remains in office, virtually becomes king.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          No president has ever defied the impeachment authority of congress by simply denying all subpoenas of all witnesses and all documents across the board without reason of executive privilege. But what you neglect to concern yourself with is that in abusing his power in that manner the president, basically vanquishing congressional oversight, for so long as he remains in office, virtually becomes king.
                          Jimmy, Nixon and Clinton had to be compelled by the courts in their impeachment hearings. Do you ever read history books Jimmy? Stonewalling Congress is a presidential tradition, but Democrats only care when it’s a Republican doing it. I can’t imagine why.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            Jimmy, Nixon and Clinton had to be compelled by the courts in their impeachment hearings. Do you ever read history books Jimmy? Stonewalling Congress is a presidential tradition, but Democrats only care when it’s a Republican doing it. I can’t imagine why.
                            Lilpix, neither Nixon or Clinton refused to allow any one in their administration from testifying, you simply have no idea what you are blabbing about.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                              Lilpix, neither Nixon or Clinton refused to allow any one in their administration from testifying, you simply have no idea what you are blabbing about.
                              You're suggesting that the president has the power to refuse a legal request from Congress, and there's nothing they can do about it, not even go to court. Is that really what you believe?
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                I just want to differentiate between the "subpoenas" issued by Schiff and his gang from those issued by other committees including AFAICT Nadler's. The latter seem to be fully legitimate but Schiff's had no legal standing which is why he dropped them like a hot potato the moment that Charles Kupperman asked the courts for guidance in the conflicting demands of Executive Privilege and his subpoenas.
                                This is mere conjecture on your part. The subpoenas were dropped because (as Trump presumably planned) they would not be ruled upon by the courts until well after the November elections when they would effectively be irrelevant.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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