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The Coming Storm

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  • #16
    Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
    Christians exchanging Christianity for progressivism and active persecution are two distinct things. Probably both will happen, most churches will become useless and the remaining faithful will be persecuted.
    Probably in the long term. I think the next few years is more and more churches will become useless and the remaining faithful will find it harder and harder to find other faithful.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
      I wish I had your faith in the Constitution. Frankly I think there's a group of lawyers working on away around those restrictions right now. They may be just waiting for the right case or a more favorable Supreme Court. Also there's all these Human Right commissions that seem to take the attitude of religious rights are less important than other rights.

      Ultimately they won't get us because we're religious. We'll be gotten because we're part of a criminal organization that deserves to be wiped out. (The easiest example: any organization that persistently shelters pedophiles is a criminal conspiracy that should be disbanded.)

      By the way, I'm religious and not Christian because I think it will start with Christianity but will spread to cover other faiths eventually.
      I have more faith in a rather large armed populace, most of which are diehard constitutionalists. There's definitely tension in the air about this issue, but if this populace perceives any type of drastic changes or modifications or violations to this in any way, that would spark a civil war. If that happens, well, then it's game over for this country, regardless of the outcome.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
        Probably in the long term. I think the next few years is more and more churches will become useless and the remaining faithful will find it harder and harder to find other faithful.
        In Luke 18:8, Jesus asks if the Son of Man will find faith when He returns. For a long time, I thought that was a rhetorical question to provoke discussion. And it may still be that way.

        Personnally for long time, I was undecided on the answer. In the past couple years, I've moved to an answer of "no."
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
          Sometime as President Obama's administration progressed, I saw a storm coming. It was just small clouds off in the distance but they were there. Unfortunately it's too far back for me to recall what events prompted me to preceive this.

          Over the years, the clouds have thickened and darkened and now I'm beginning to feel a cold wind. The storm is approaching although I can not say how soon it will hit. I'm certainly not ready for it.

          A genuine persecution of Christians is coming to America. Our churches are not ready because the church leaders probably don't believe it's coming. Their self-help, life counsel, and encouragement ministries aren't strong enough to withstand what is coming. The church goal has become making the members feel comfortable and safe. They can't believe they will ever be persecuted.

          Will the storm arrive tomorrow? Nah. Will the storm arrive next month? Probably not. Will the storm arrive next year? There's a chance. Will the storm arrive in five years? More likely. One thing I've learned is when I see these things, it's not immediate fulfillment. Give it some time before you call me wrong.

          (Yeah, this is not my normal style. I've been thinking about this for awhile but I have no idea why it came out this way.)
          You were right. It looks like the whole PANIC OF 2020 will eventually be used to harass and forcefully shut down US churches. So far, at least some if not most churches are receiving exemptions. But I suspect if we have a second wave or something, and pastors get more defiant, enforcement will get even more harsh. Didn't think something like that would ever come to our shores, but now it's a very good possibility.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            You were right. It looks like the whole PANIC OF 2020 will eventually be used to harass and forcefully shut down US churches. So far, at least some if not most churches are receiving exemptions. But I suspect if we have a second wave or something, and pastors get more defiant, enforcement will get even more harsh. Didn't think something like that would ever come to our shores, but now it's a very good possibility.
            Our Church has reopened - and this past Sunday, we had 2 families visit us because their churches are not yet open.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by seanD View Post
              You were right. It looks like the whole PANIC OF 2020 will eventually be used to harass and forcefully shut down US churches. So far, at least some if not most churches are receiving exemptions. But I suspect if we have a second wave or something, and pastors get more defiant, enforcement will get even more harsh. Didn't think something like that would ever come to our shores, but now it's a very good possibility.
              Certainly when I made the OP at the end of January, coronavirus was mostly viewed as a Chinese problem. I didn't think it would cause as destructive as it has proven to be.

              I think Christianity is in a bind. Between supporting President Trump and defying social distancing orders, there are many parts of society that would view these as hostile acts. Eventually, they will get power and bring the power of the government down on churches.

              Somehow, Christianity has lost it's appeal. My initial thoughts on this is the causes are the Moral Majority bringing Christianity into politics and a horrible lack of discipleship so most Christians aren't even exposed to what it means to be Christian. The later shows in all the sexual scandals that have afflicted both Catholicism and Protestantism.

              I wish I knew what the answer was. Unfortunately, I think it's going to be found in the fires of persecution.
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Our Church has reopened - and this past Sunday, we had 2 families visit us because their churches are not yet open.
                I am glad to for you. I pray God will prosper you're church's ministry.

                I think as Christians, we have to start getting use to the regionalism of the United States. Just because everything is right in my area, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. So I think it's possible there will be freedom of religion in parts of the US and restrictions in other parts of the US.

                I'm not hopeful for my area. I haven't heard any local objections to churches being closed and we'll probably still be closed for another 6 weeks at least. I suspect a lot of churches on the edge financially are going to close up. I remember I think it was Pew survey about how reliable the Bible is that was conducted nationally and my area was in the bottom 20%. It now shows, we're not Christian up here anymore because being Christian doesn't matter to people here anymore.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #23
                  It's odd. I don't think our church feels like it's big problem. We're getting pretty good participation remotely. The food pantry and other service activities have ramped up. Kids are holding events via video. The church is people, not a building. I also expect we'll have outdoor services fairly soon.
                  I think Christianity is in a bind. Between supporting President Trump and defying social distancing orders, there are many parts of society that would view these as hostile acts.
                  They are hostile acts.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                    Certainly when I made the OP at the end of January, coronavirus was mostly viewed as a Chinese problem. I didn't think it would cause as destructive as it has proven to be.

                    I think Christianity is in a bind. Between supporting President Trump and defying social distancing orders, there are many parts of society that would view these as hostile acts. Eventually, they will get power and bring the power of the government down on churches.

                    Somehow, Christianity has lost it's appeal. My initial thoughts on this is the causes are the Moral Majority bringing Christianity into politics and a horrible lack of discipleship so most Christians aren't even exposed to what it means to be Christian. The later shows in all the sexual scandals that have afflicted both Catholicism and Protestantism.

                    I wish I knew what the answer was. Unfortunately, I think it's going to be found in the fires of persecution.
                    I believe it was legitimately inspired. And I'm not the one that readily goes there with these types of spiritual things.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by hedrick View Post
                      It's odd. I don't think our church feels like it's big problem. We're getting pretty good participation remotely. The food pantry and other service activities have ramped up. Kids are holding events via video. The church is people, not a building. I also expect we'll have outdoor services fairly soon.

                      They are hostile acts.
                      I think it will be a big problem. There are people who are going to start out by trying to separate "good" Christian who didn't support Trump from "bad" Christian who supported Trump. Eventually they will decide the effort is too much and decide all Christians are "bad." I think eventually your church will discover it's a problem when they come knocking on your doors. I'll save you a seat on the bus to prison.
                      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post
                        I believe it was legitimately inspired. And I'm not the one that readily goes there with these types of spiritual things.
                        Thanks. I would agree it was inspired in the sense of God stimulated my intellect and intuition to produce the result He wanted. It was not inspired in the sense He dictated it word by word to me.
                        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          I don't see that happening unless the constitution is utterly abolished, at least not on a governmental level. Not saying it's impossible, as we're certainly seeing glimpses of that here and there. But for the most part, the constitution is holding firm against this. On the other hand, I can definitely see Christians bending to the pressure of pop culture.
                          I didn't hear any news about this SCOTUS decision supporting governors being able to close churches as long as they are treated like other businesses until I stumbled across an article on it.

                          In fairness, this article thinks it's a good decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...rnor-in-church

                          This article thinks it's a bad decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...erts-strangled

                          This decision doesn't help my feelings that the Constitution will be no help in defending my religious beliefs.
                          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                            I didn't hear any news about this SCOTUS decision supporting governors being able to close churches as long as they are treated like other businesses until I stumbled across an article on it.

                            In fairness, this article thinks it's a good decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...rnor-in-church

                            This article thinks it's a bad decision: https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...erts-strangled

                            This decision doesn't help my feelings that the Constitution will be no help in defending my religious beliefs.
                            It's pretty clear that the shutdown polices, which have been implemented the strictest in blue states, have become political, evidence of how they're still demanding churches decrease their numbers even in spite of the protests that a lot of Dems are commending and justifying. In fact, the way in which the MSM (and liberal leaders) treated the protesters of the shutdown vs. the protesters of BLM is so stark that it couldn't be anymore obvious.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              [

                              The blatant double standard is entirely partisan driven. Here's the Guardian trying to find justification (and classifying it as "science") for why the protests are okay but not indoor gatherings, like church gatherings or campaign rallies. If a second wave occurs, leftist politicians will have no conscience problem whatsoever blaming conservatives and moving against church gatherings in spite of the protests they enthusiastically endorsed prior.
                              Last edited by seanD; 06-18-2020, 01:02 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                                Sometime as President Obama's administration progressed, I saw a storm coming. It was just small clouds off in the distance but they were there. Unfortunately it's too far back for me to recall what events prompted me to preceive this.

                                Over the years, the clouds have thickened and darkened and now I'm beginning to feel a cold wind. The storm is approaching although I can not say how soon it will hit. I'm certainly not ready for it.

                                A genuine persecution of Christians is coming to America. Our churches are not ready because the church leaders probably don't believe it's coming. Their self-help, life counsel, and encouragement ministries aren't strong enough to withstand what is coming. The church goal has become making the members feel comfortable and safe. They can't believe they will ever be persecuted.

                                Will the storm arrive tomorrow? Nah. Will the storm arrive next month? Probably not. Will the storm arrive next year? There's a chance. Will the storm arrive in five years? More likely. One thing I've learned is when I see these things, it's not immediate fulfillment. Give it some time before you call me wrong.

                                (Yeah, this is not my normal style. I've been thinking about this for awhile but I have no idea why it came out this way.)
                                I've been watching the news about John MacArthur and Grace Church. The storm has drawn closer. The skies are now definitely dark and gloomy and wind is colder and stronger. I think I just felt a drop of rain on my face.
                                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                                Comment

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