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Bolten says trump wanted the aid frozen until he had answers to inquires sought

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  • #91
    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
    Incidentally, by speaking up in this way Trump has nullified any potential claims of executive privilege covering Bolton's testimony.
    No he hasn't.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Mountain Man, Esq. View Post
      No he hasn't.
      Ok then.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Ok then.
        I was at least expecting you to come back with a link to an editorial explaining why you think I'm wrong.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I was at least expecting you to come back with a link to an editorial explaining why you think I'm wrong.
          Why would I bother? I already know that he has done so. I'm sure you can find some baseless article to paste. Waste of my time.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
            Why would I bother? I already know that he has done so. I'm sure you can find some baseless article to paste. Waste of my time.
            I accept your grudging concession.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              I hope you realize that your rationale for singling out Jim with a snide post because you "hope [he] might something in what I say" obliterates the rationale you were using to criticize Jim's post.

              Now, I'm not nearly as smart as Juvenal* (I can't do the math, never could) but it doesn't take a genius to see that.

              So all I'm saying on that is ... spice it up! Jim and others routinely make fact-based criticisms or observations
              You can stop right there. Their 'fact-based' posts are routinely framed (as the OP here) in such a way that it's not an objective observation, but an invitation to either agree unreservedly with their interpretation of the facts, or accept that you're a morally debased idiot.

              That's not a sincere attempt to present facts, but an attempt at ego self-gratification, and a slap in the face to others as well.


              Not that Ox is the only one who does this, but he is one who routinely complains about others doing it, or people responding with hostility to his attacks on them. He's a crybully. It's unhealthy and unChristian behaviour.



              Originally posted by Sam
              and get a pretty routine variation of "Oh, there goes your TDS again." It's a target-rich environment for ignorance-based nagging, is all -- if you're not going to ground your criticisms in figuring out who here is getting snippy from truth-telling and who here is getting snippy from spinning yarns then you're really free to go changing it up once in a while.

              You assume that I haven't already done that, and confirm it on an ongoing basis. I know (more or less) who I can trust to try to be fair and unbiased, who is extremely biased (Hi, JimL!), and who thinks they're smart, unbiased and own the moral high ground (but don't fully achieve any of those three).

              Adrift would fall in the first group, you can figure out where you fit.

              Originally posted by Sam
              To your questions: Biden announced on April 25, 2019. Trump was already working with Giuliani by then to get both the Biden and DNC server investigations announced by the pre-Zelensky government. After Zelensky won, Trump was talking about Biden's role in getting Shokin fired in early May and Giuliani was planning to jet-set off to Ukraine to convince the incoming Zelensky administration to not drop those promised investigations.

              Trump released the aid on Sept. 11, 2019 -- he was made aware of the whistleblower complaint in late August and his administration worked to unlawfully withhold it from Congress. When that failed, the House announced an investigation into the complaint ~Sept. 4 and a full investigation into Trump's conduct on Sept. 9. Trump released the aid only after learning there would be a broad investigation into his actions.

              --Sam

              *My hair is ... fine. Nothing worth comparison.

              Thanks. Interesting
              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

              Comment


              • #97
                Interesting...

                The “House Bolton Maneuver” was a pre-planned operation to use a timed NSC ‘resistance’ leak to frame a new demand for testimony in the Senate. From the beginning the House intentionally constructed an impeachment process to avoid the judicial branch because the construction of the articles was dependent on an unconstitutional creation: impeachment by decree of the Speaker.

                As a result of their approach, the House fully intended to usurp their lack of judicial subpoena authority by placing political pressure on the Senate to call the trial witnesses they knew were unattainable due to separation of powers within the constitutional process. By design the House plan puts the burden of compulsory witness testimony upon the Senate because the House refused to create their own authority with a vote to initiate the impeachment process.

                The House effort was, and is, an end-run around the constitutional outline for impeachment. This was not a flaw; it was a feature of the House creation.


                https://theconservativetreehouse.com...lton-maneuver/
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                  All that’s left is ‘so what? It’s not impeachable!’
                  Why not?
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Money quote from Jim Jordan: "Someone telling the New York Times what John Bolton's draft manuscript supposedly says doesn't change the underlying facts!"
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                      You can stop right there. Their 'fact-based' posts are routinely framed (as the OP here) in such a way that it's not an objective observation, but an invitation to either agree unreservedly with their interpretation of the facts, or accept that you're a morally debased idiot.

                      That's not a sincere attempt to present facts, but an attempt at ego self-gratification, and a slap in the face to others as well.


                      Not that Ox is the only one who does this, but he is one who routinely complains about others doing it, or people responding with hostility to his attacks on them. He's a crybully. It's unhealthy and unChristian behaviour.






                      You assume that I haven't already done that, and confirm it on an ongoing basis. I know (more or less) who I can trust to try to be fair and unbiased, who is extremely biased (Hi, JimL!), and who thinks they're smart, unbiased and own the moral high ground (but don't fully achieve any of those three).

                      Adrift would fall in the first group, you can figure out where you fit.




                      Thanks. Interesting

                      Using the matrix you outline here:

                      Unless I'm mistaken, I've only seen you -- in my time back here -- go after Jim and myself in this manner. The last month or so, only Jim. So your apology is that you're gettin' on Jim because he's in the first group (fair-minded) but you're chiding him for appealing to others using harsh and derogatory language ... by calling him a "crybully", effectively using the same tactic?

                      Even if I've got the matrix wrong and you're putting Jim in the third group, it's a completely hypocritical stance. Might need some tweaking.

                      Apart from that, I'll fully agree that people can tone it down ... but Jim is pretty far from the person to start with, in that regard. And it'd be worthwhile to get a full grasp of Trump's conduct and the ensuing impeachment proceedings before coming down on people for getting frustrated. An example: it was only months ago that several folks here were arguing incessantly that Trump did not link his "favor" on the July 25 phone call to Biden, only to the DNC server conspiracy. These days? That argument is gone -- and not only gone, Trump's request to investigate Biden is being celebrated as good governance and completely legitimate.

                      That's playing in a big field of bad faith, one where the goalposts keep moving back, and back, and back because the core argument is that Trump cannot legitimately be impeached. Folks here have argued in the past months that 1) The President can't be criminally charged while in office, 2) Congress does not have the ability to investigate potential crimes and 3) The President cannot be impeached except for criminal behavior. Effectively, the President cannot be impeached.

                      There are better places to direct our tut-tutting than at people calling out that sort of nonsense bad faith for what it is.

                      --Sam
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Money quote from Jim Jordan: "Someone telling the New York Times what John Bolton's draft manuscript supposedly says doesn't change the underlying facts!"
                        Exactly, the bag of wind is right, just not in the way you and he think. It bolsters the underlying facts of the Articles.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Money quote from Jim Jordan: "Someone telling the New York Times what John Bolton's draft manuscript supposedly says doesn't change the underlying facts!"
                          If John Bolton doesn’t testify, it reinforces that it’s a cover-up, not a trial.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • You guys really haven't been paying attention to how the defense is shredding Shifty Schiff's case, have you?
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              I see. So the fact he abused his power and was trying to coerce a foreign government to help with his Political campaign in 2020 is fine with you?
                              Not a "fact". That's a faulty premise.

                              The fact he held up money he lawfully did not have a valid reason to hold does not matter to you?
                              Every president does it, "lawfully" or not. Obama just got through doing it.

                              In my perfect world, Ukraine wouldn't be getting any money from US taxpayers - period.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                                Not a "fact". That's a faulty premise.



                                Every president does it, "lawfully" or not. Obama just got through doing it.

                                In my perfect world, Ukraine wouldn't be getting any money from US taxpayers - period.
                                Isn’t the aid kind of owed to the Ukrainians for giving up 1000 nukes?

                                Comment

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