Page 18 of 21 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 203

Thread: Is there a Christian alternative to critical race theory?

  1. #171
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    60,424
    Amen (Given)
    13032
    Amen (Received)
    27576
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    A Catholic lens, yes. But also a biblical lens. I do believe that there are pronouncements of extreme import between the authoritative ex Cathedra and the random musings of a, individual. There are differing views on ecclesiology, and how Christians interact collectively in society.
    Do you believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

    The Baptists have firm beliefs about the church operating at the local level as the tangible institution, but at the other end of operating across the nation or world, the understandings rely on the concept of the invisible and mystical body of Christ, without any organic and tangible component.
    First of all, there can be a huge difference between "Baptists" and "Southern Baptists". Many independent Baptist Churches, for example, are much more authoritarian.

    In between those two extremes is the SBC annual meeting, a convention in which resolutions are offered to the world.
    Why is it so necessary for you to pervert the significance of this process?

    It is definitely not the equivalent of navel gazing as CP alleges,
    More dishonesty.

    nor is the attendance of the meeting only for self fulfillment of and for individual.
    Never said that.

    The Catholic Church has a plethora of non binding, non authoritative statements, but that does not mean the message can be ignored and contradicted.
    SBC Resolutions most certainly can.

    One question I asked, and Protestants here ducked is if they are willing to make a stand and declare any of the resolutions on race as mere musings of men, and not reflecting the will of the Creator. Silence spoke volumes.
    More dishonesty - nobody said the Resolutions were "mere musings of men".

    The "silence", I suppose, may due to disbelief that you're being so adamantly and profoundly ignorant.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  2. #172
    tWebber
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,083
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Do you believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God?



    First of all, there can be a huge difference between "Baptists" and "Southern Baptists". Many independent Baptist Churches, for example, are much more authoritarian.



    Why is it so necessary for you to pervert the significance of this process?



    More dishonesty.



    Never said that.



    SBC Resolutions most certainly can.



    More dishonesty - nobody said the Resolutions were "mere musings of men".

    The "silence", I suppose, may due to disbelief that you're being so adamantly and profoundly ignorant.
    And just what have you been arguing here? You most certainly placed in terms of navel gazing, the annual meeting as fulfilling for personal reasons while pointedly discounting any and all corporate importance,

    Yes the resolutions can be ignored, and so also can the Sunday sermon. But if the preacher crafts the sermon so that it is in accord with scripture, ignoring the sermon is tantamount to ignoring scriptures. It is not the specific words which make scripture significant, it is the ideas in it which can be traced back to divine agency.

    The SBC sits squarely within Baptist tradition, and since we are referring to the SBC and not any of the other Baptists groups, regardless of whether I used Baptist in the sense of Baptist tradition or any group, it does not alter the meaning. But then again, you do seem to look for any opening to parse the text.

    No perverting the process, the Baptists certainly do have the idea of the invisible and mystical body of believers at the one end of the corporate continuum, and also the idea of the individual and individual, local church. But in between those two? You refuse to state that the Holy Spirit influences the SBC, preferring this game of tag: no matter which direction it comes from, you just cannot state it.

    Do I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word? Yes I do. But I also believe that each generation is dependent on the thinking of men who came before (and this I admit is a key difference, but do not want to bring that in, because it would likely drag off the discussion)

  3. #173
    tWebber
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,083
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    Amazing Anachronism, Batman!!!

    Of course Galatians three doesn't consider the views of 'white' and 'black' Christians. They didn't exist then, and they weren't the author's intended audience. He also 'failed' to account for hate speech, slut shaming, body identity issues, social media bullying, and much more.

    For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

    God should really have got someone better informed to write to the churches in Galatia.



    However, the Bible does give us all sorts of general principles which can apply to many different situations, and some specific advice as well. Stick to that.
    Galatians was offered as an alternative to CRT as an analytic tool, and I would say that your posts shows that does not serve the function as any analytic tool. Which leaves the question of CRT.

    There exists a divide on how white Christians and black Christians see racism; Black Christians see racism as a group phenomenon, that is part of the reason the black churches found it fitting to send their members into harms way along with MLK, White Evangelicals stayed home White Christians see racism as affecting individual and perpetrated by individuals. That, right there, is the point where the lights flash and the bell sounds, signifying that there is a problem which needs attention, and that ignoring it is a problem. Not sure that the bible alone would lead to the flash of recognition.

  4. #174
    tWebber
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,083
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by RumTumTugger View Post
    emphasis mine

    Simplicio, the worldly CRT can only bring division because it looks for things that divide us, as shown by the above question from you, when we should be looking for and at what brings us together, The TRUTH. There is to be no white, black, red, brown or blue views of Christianity as those who follow the worldly CRT try to tell us, there is only the biblical view.

    There is only The Church of All follower's of The Way all who have accepted Christ Jesus as their savior are Christian and part of the Church and as such are brothers and Sisters in Christ.

    Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    bold emphasis mine.

    We do not need the worldly CRT to tell us how to be right with God and our fellow Christians. The Bible is all we need to tell us how. That of Christ living the perfect life, dying for our sins and the free gift we have to become right with God which is what brings us together.
    Yes, "CRT brings division". And you know that how? From reading critiques of CRT? The SBC is not championing its use unreservedly, it is not tossing out the bible. It has 12 short sentences, the "WHEREAS" clauses, followed by ten "RESOLVED" clauses http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/2308/...ersectionality

    In case you haven't noticed, there is division in the church, in society already. CRT is not being offered as an ideological framework, it is a framework to address social dynamics. the goal is to help the church heal those divisions.

    It is only 22 sentences long, and it follows the usual practice of the first and last sentences being rather trite, for want of a better term. So there are twenty sentences of importance the the discussion. I doubt that there is a single poster who has read them carefully.

    One of the problems is that even among those who have accepted Jesus either perpetuate the evil of racism or ignore the evil and do nothing. I started a thread on the responsibilities of Christians toward social evils, the OP is "Burdensome Christianity?" I welcome your comments there. The upshot is that it condemns strongly inaction as well as causing social evils.

  5. #175
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    51,948
    Amen (Given)
    5248
    Amen (Received)
    22984
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Yes I did say that I thought it to be antichristian, and I also believe it.
    Make up your mind...
    You said it was anti-christian, then I affirmed that and then you argued it wasn't:
    Using CRT as an analytic tool, is not antichristian, just as algebra, is not Muslim.
    Then I pointed out that you said it first, and now you agree and say you believe it.

    How the heck can anyone keep up with you?


    But the resolution is not adopting CRT as a philosophy and forming their theology around it. So basically this thread has 163 posts, and you do not realize what the discussion is even about.

    I say that I provided a sufficient answer, an example of CRT as a useful tool. While you are not sure what the discussion is about, you do not even know what CRT entails and entails as an analytic tool.
    There you go doing that troll thing where you try to accuse the other person of what you are guilty of.


    Identifying a problem is NOT the same as dividing people. racism is an evil, a social evil. Pedophilia is an evil. And if you attend a large church, there is most likely some plan, which includes training at least some members on identifying the problem. Recognizing the problem is not what "divisive" means.

    The only ones who fully live out the Christian faith as the Lord intended are the ones who do not sin. If you have a practical solution to achieve that, I will listen. And then we won't need to worry about having to use CRT as an analytic tool, assessing social dynamics.

    I take it you have not read the resolution carefully. It might be lengthy but it contains about a dozen "Whereas" clauses which are like the assumptions or axioms, and about ten resolved clauses, some of which are not really deep.
    ....And you still haven't given me a concrete example of how a Christian should use CRT, which you now claim is anti-christian again.

    I think I am done spinning my wheels with you Simplicio. You have wasted enough of my time. Have a good day.

  6. Amen RumTumTugger, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  7. #176
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    60,424
    Amen (Given)
    13032
    Amen (Received)
    27576
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    And just what have you been arguing here?
    It probably doesn't matter since you're only going to post what you want to post.

    You most certainly placed in terms of navel gazing, the annual meeting as fulfilling for personal reasons while pointedly discounting any and all corporate importance,
    That's your perverse interpretation, yes.

    Yes the resolutions can be ignored, and so also can the Sunday sermon.
    Here's a MAJOR difference for you to ignore....
    A) Most Southern Baptists have never even heard of the Resolutons
    2) The Sunday Morning Sermon, if done properly (IMOHBAO) is a the preaching from the Word of God, which is ignored to the listener's peril.

    But if the preacher crafts the sermon so that it is in accord with scripture, ignoring the sermon is tantamount to ignoring scriptures. It is not the specific words which make scripture significant, it is the ideas in it which can be traced back to divine agency.
    Very good!!! I wouldn't have worded it quite that way, but if the preacher is preaching THE BIBLE, that would probably be a logical conclusion.

    The SBC sits squarely within Baptist tradition, and since we are referring to the SBC and not any of the other Baptists groups, regardless of whether I used Baptist in the sense of Baptist tradition or any group, it does not alter the meaning. But then again, you do seem to look for any opening to parse the text.
    It was just a point of clarification, I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch.

    No perverting the process, the Baptists certainly do have the idea of the invisible and mystical body of believers at the one end of the corporate continuum, and also the idea of the individual and individual, local church. But in between those two? You refuse to state that the Holy Spirit influences the SBC, preferring this game of tag: no matter which direction it comes from, you just cannot state it.
    I refuse to play your game, yes. The Holy Spirit moves as He will.

    Do I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word? Yes I do.
    How did I know there would be a "but" following that?

    But I also believe that each generation is dependent on the thinking of men who came before (and this I admit is a key difference, but do not want to bring that in, because it would likely drag off the discussion)
    The "thinking of men before" us can get us in trouble, like with the Slavery issue and the whole "Cain Doctrine".

    Better to always go back to the Bible as the.... like we state in our BF&M....

    The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.


    Resolutions at an Annual Meeting are nowhere near in the same class as Scripture.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  8. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  9. #177
    tWebber
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,083
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Make up your mind...
    You said it was anti-christian, then I affirmed that and then you argued it wasn't:

    Then I pointed out that you said it first, and now you agree and say you believe it.

    How the heck can anyone keep up with you?


    There you go doing that troll thing where you try to accuse the other person of what you are guilty of.




    ....And you still haven't given me a concrete example of how a Christian should use CRT, which you now claim is anti-christian again.

    I think I am done spinning my wheels with you Simplicio. You have wasted enough of my time. Have a good day.
    In other words, you see no distinction between adopting CRT as an ideology and using it as an analytic tool. Which means that you haven't really read the resolution. It is right there in black and white

    I have given multiple on here, most were ignored. But you are forgetting the most basic starting point is recognizing if there is even a race problem in this country. If there is none, then the SBC had no business making a resolution on a nonexistent problem. But then again, you thought it appropriate to adopt the memes of the racists while claiming imnocence.

    For anyone else who is curious, the second "resolved" and the sixth "whereas" together show that the SBC holds CRT as subordinate to scripture and that it is an analytic tool,

  10. #178
    tWebber
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,083
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It probably doesn't matter since you're only going to post what you want to post.



    That's your perverse interpretation, yes.



    Here's a MAJOR difference for you to ignore....
    A) Most Southern Baptists have never even heard of the Resolutons
    2) The Sunday Morning Sermon, if done properly (IMOHBAO) is a the preaching from the Word of God, which is ignored to the listener's peril.



    Very good!!! I wouldn't have worded it quite that way, but if the preacher is preaching THE BIBLE, that would probably be a logical conclusion.



    It was just a point of clarification, I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch.



    I refuse to play your game, yes. The Holy Spirit moves as He will.



    How did I know there would be a "but" following that?



    The "thinking of men before" us can get us in trouble, like with the Slavery issue and the whole "Cain Doctrine".

    Better to always go back to the Bible as the.... like we state in our BF&M....

    The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.


    Resolutions at an Annual Meeting are nowhere near in the same class as Scripture.
    And here is a shocker for you. Might want to acquaint yourself with some real life members of the SBC. Most SBC members are familiar with the ideas while not likely to have read the resolutions.

    You say that the resolutions are nowhere near in the same class as scripture, yet Baptists (c'mon, shorthand is acceptable) will insist that no Christian will be a racist and if one is a racist he's not Christian, it might not be a tight theology, but it is a folk theology common today among Baptists, reflecting a an intuitive reflection of the ideas of the resolutions on race. Ideas do not stay on the pages of the resolution, they do escape and influence people. Even people outside of the SBC.

    It was the thinking of men who gave the nicene creed, Athanasian creed, decided the doctrine of Trinity (at a meeting of Christians, no less). When the churches split after the reformation, most did not think that the "thinking of men" was not all that problematic!

    Thank you for the praise, a sermon can reflect scripture. But can't the same be said of a resolution?

    "the Spirit moves as he wills" but you cannot explicitly concede that the Bible might be true when it says "whenever two or more gather in my name", if two or more happen to gather under the auspices of the SBC annual meeting! It been what, 130 posts?

    If the other posters are right, then it is not the Spirit that moved among those poor souls, but the demonic spirits, the spirit of divisivenness.

  11. #179
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    60,424
    Amen (Given)
    13032
    Amen (Received)
    27576
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    And here is a shocker for you. Might want to acquaint yourself with some real life members of the SBC.
    Yuh
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  12. #180
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    60,424
    Amen (Given)
    13032
    Amen (Received)
    27576
    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    If the other posters are right, then it is not the Spirit that moved among those poor souls, but the demonic spirits, the spirit of divisivenness.
    This is just dumb. There can't POSSIBLY be an alternate explanation? Like men were doing something they thought was a good thing, but didn't necessarily consult the Holy Spirit on it like they should have?

    Again, if this was "of the Spirit", was the Spirit wrong when he came up with the draft, or when he edited it beyond recognition. I believe men simply got ahead of themselves, and people like you see it as an issue over which to argue.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •