Book Plunge: We Are All Philosophers

[Apologiaphoenix]

Does John Frame give a good introduction?

LinkSocratic Logic or his Philosophy 101

[lee_merrill]

God is not the cause of an innocent woman being raped or a child being aborted in the womb or of a family living in poverty.

Or a son being crucified? If the cross was in God's sovereign plan, then any other evil can even be part of God's plan, for good.

Source: John Piper

Gen. 50:20 "And as for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."

The text says, 'You meant evil against me.' Evil is a feminine singular noun. Then it says, 'God meant it for good.' The word 'it' is a feminine singular suffix that can only agree with the antecedent feminine singular noun, 'evil.' And the verb 'meant' is the same past tense in both cases. You meant evil against me in the past, as you were doing it. And God meant that very evil, not as evil, but as good in the past as you were doing it. And to make this perfectly clear, Psalm 105:17 says about Joseph's coming to Egypt, '[God] sent a man before them, Joseph, who was sold as a slave.' God sent him. God did not find him there owing to evil choices, and then try to make something good come of it. Therefore this text stands as a kind of paradigm for how to understand the evil will of man within the sovereign will of God.

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Or would we rather have even evil be not part of God's plan, i.e. we are getting less than the best, so evil wins to some degree.

"The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's works." (1 John 3:8)

Blessings,
Lee

[Apologiaphoenix]

God can use it for good, but I struggle with thinking God caused the rape of someone else like that. Jesus took a volunteer position. He voluntarily went to the cross knowing what God would have happen to Him.

[KingsGambit]

Who was the prominent Calvinist who casually admitted in a debate several years ago that he believes God wills the rape of children? I think it was James White, but I'm having trouble finding the exact quote.

[lee_merrill]

God can use it for good, but I struggle with thinking God caused the rape of someone else like that. Jesus took a volunteer position. He voluntarily went to the cross knowing what God would have happen to Him.

So we are getting less than the best? Evil triumphs, to some degree? and what about John Piper's point, all this evil happened to Joseph without consent.

Blessings,
Lee

[Apologiaphoenix]

So we are getting less than the best? Evil triumphs, to some degree? and what about John Piper's point, all this evil happened to Joseph without consent.

Blessings,
Lee

Who says we get less than the best?

God allows all evil.

That doesn't mean He directly causes all of it.

[lee_merrill]

Who says we get less than the best?

If evil is not part of God's plan, then we should say he had a better plan, which was foiled.

God allows all evil.

Scripture?

That doesn't mean He directly causes all of it.

You skipped John Piper's point again, he shows from Scripture that God meant what happened to Joseph, for good. As in the cross...

Blessings,
Lee

[Apologiaphoenix]

If evil is not part of God's plan, then we should say he had a better plan, which was foiled.

There's a difference between saying evil is a part of God's plan and God is the cause of evil.

Scripture?

Ahab released a man that God had deemed should die and Ahab was the one who died for it.

You skipped John Piper's point again, he shows from Scripture that God meant what happened to Joseph, for good. As in the cross...

Blessings,
Lee

And I agree, but it doesn't mean that evil is caused by God.