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Thread: RIP #MeToo

  1. #1
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    RIP #MeToo

    Felicia Sonmez, an reporter for the Washington Post who the paper describes as a "National reporter on The Washington Post's breaking political news team" was suspended by the paper for tweeting a link to a 2016 article about historical sexual assault allegations against Bryant in the wake of his death in a helicopter crash. Just linking to the fact that Kobe, who is undoubtedly a true basketball legend and has a reputation for doing good works in the community, nevertheless, was tried for rape and acquitted. That was an undeniable fact.

    So this looks like the death knell for the open discussion about sexual assault (usually alleged).

    ETA: Due to a severe backlash from their own employees (something like 300 signed a protest letter), the Washington Post has rescinded their suspension of Sonmez. Still, I think the damage has been done. There are now some people, who at least for certain times, that it is not seen as acceptable to accuse of sexual misconduct.
    Last edited by rogue06; 01-29-2020 at 11:13 AM.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  2. #2
    Tweeb Overlord Chaotic Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Felicia Sonmez, an reporter for the Washington Post who the paper describes as a "National reporter on The Washington Post's breaking political news team" was suspended by the paper for tweeting a link to a 2016 article about historical sexual assault allegations against Bryant in the wake of his death in a helicopter crash. Just linking to the fact that Kobe, who is undoubtedly a true basketball legend and has a reputation for doing good works in the community, nevertheless, was tried for rape and acquitted. That was an undeniable fact.

    So this looks like the death knell for the open discussion about sexual assault (usually alleged).

    ETA: Due to a severe backlash from their own employees (something like 300 signed a protest letter), the Washington Post has rescinded their suspension of Sonmez. Still, I think the damage has been done. There are now some people, who at least for certain times, that it is not seen as acceptable to accuse of sexual misconduct.
    Yeah, the #MeToo movement has basically devolved into little more than a Witch Hunt* that people exploit to get someone Cancelled. The backlash has been happening for a while now, the two most common examples I can think of are the response to that recent Michael Jackson, "Documentary," as well as the recent Vic Mignogna Lawsuit against his former employers (and apparently some of the same people tried to target his replacement Voice Actor).

    *It's like people missed the point on why Witch Hunts are a bad thing... Exercising due diligence is important, after all.
    Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

  3. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.
  4. #3
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Void View Post
    ... most common examples I can think of are the response to that recent Michael Jackson, "Documentary,"
    In what way? I thought the documentary was simply validation of what had been known for many years anyway.

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    Tweeb Overlord Chaotic Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    In what way? I thought the documentary was simply validation of what had been known for many years anyway.
    Not really... IF Michael Jackson is guilty, and I'm not totally convinced he was, Robson and Safechuck aren't going to be the damning witnesses. Heck, there were so many holes shot in the, "Documentary," they actually edited out around a half-hour of footage before the UK Release just so they could cover their butts.
    Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

  6. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.
  7. #5
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    In what way? I thought the documentary was simply validation of what had been known for many years anyway.
    I didn't see the documentary, but I assumed he was guilty no different than I would assume the obvious guilt of a grown man I didn't know who hung out with other people's young children and was then accused of molesting children in a court of law. The circumstances from that alone make it a pretty obvious case. The reason he got away with it for so long is the same reason most celebrities get away with these types of sexual illegalities -- pedophilia, sexual harassment, etc. -- probably because of denial.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanD View Post
    I didn't see the documentary, but I assumed he was guilty no different than I would assume the obvious guilt of a grown man I didn't know who hung out with other people's young children and was then accused of molesting children in a court of law. The circumstances from that alone make it a pretty obvious case. The reason he got away with it for so long is the same reason most celebrities get away with these types of sexual illegalities -- pedophilia, sexual harassment, etc. -- probably because of denial.
    Back in the 90s, Jackson settled a civil suit on such a charge - after the kid was able to describe Jackson's genitalia. Then he made this weird statement to the public where he declared he was "totally" innocent. Several psychology interrogators pointing out all the "tells" that showed he was lying.

    And the whole "I didn't have a childhood so I'm living it now" explanation was freaking ridiculous. I have never known a single person in my entire life offering that excuse for hanging out with little kids (almost exclusively), and many didn't get much of a childhood either. Imagine all those farmers' kids that start working at 5 years old. And his two accusers in the documentary knew about the secret sex room hidden inside Jackson's closet.

    Guilty as sin. Only fans of Jackson's music ever believed him innocent.
    Last edited by Ronson; 01-29-2020 at 06:12 PM.

  9. #7
    tWebber
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    Me too, church too, silence is not spiritual, catholic too. All these have wrought changes, needed changes.

    That the same identical happenings occur within and without the church which is the Body of Christ, suggests it is part of the culture. But within the church, appeals to scripture placed the Word at center to disregard and disrespect women, effectively making scripture an excuse for sin.

    Paige Patterson mishandled a couple of rape cases, a few years ago, he would have retired peacefully. But something changed, a line was drawn in the sand. Over thousand women signed a petition calling for his resignation, and many or most of those women were complementarian.

    "woke" is a term, used derisively by many in the church today. But "woke" recognizes the church ought to be a safe place for all, not just a safe haven for abusers.

    Me too is probably not dead, people have difficulty discussing that case of a beloved basketball icon for the same reason Catholics had difficulty recognizing their preist, Baptist had problem discussing their icons, whether Patterson or a problem under their roof, gymnasts had problem recognizing the problem, if any, with the beloved doctor, people at Penn State had difficulty responding to problem.

    The church should be leading the way, not swept along with the rest of society because we are more than just another institution. A movement from outside the church, a movement independent of the church, is forcing needed changes.

  10. #8
    tWebber
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    Me too is a reform movement, similar to other reform movements which have left their stamp on society, the culture. They are never doctrinally pure and perfect. But their impact does leave lasting changes which later generations recognize as needed. The temperance movement started in the nineteenth century, and by the late twentieth made changes. The civil rights era, from the perspective of the black American, can be seen as a period from the Civil War to the sixties, and the time since as the attempts to implement legislation and reform culture.

    Church too can be roughly divided into two groups, those outside the church critiquing and condemning from the outside. Sometimes I wonder if they are trying to tear down the church to change it. But other are critiquing from the inside.

  11. #9
    Tweeb Overlord Chaotic Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Back in the 90s, Jackson settled a civil suit on such a charge - after the kid was able to describe Jackson's genitalia. Then he made this weird statement to the public where he declared he was "totally" innocent. Several psychology interrogators pointing out all the "tells" that showed he was lying.
    First and foremost, that description has been disputed and in one detail outright debunked (specifically, whether MJ was circumcised). Second, He was acquitted of fourteen different charges in 2005- including some misdemeanors- so it seems like it's not just Michael declaring his innocence. Furthermore, false positives of, "Tells," can happen, especially if people are tired or stressed.

    Also, fun fact, Michael was pressured to settle that Civil Suit. Jackson was on tour, so doling out $20 Million to the Chandlers would have been a drop in the bucket compared to what he'd make finishing the tour.

    And the whole "I didn't have a childhood so I'm living it now" explanation was freaking ridiculous. I have never known a single person in my entire life offering that excuse for hanging out with little kids (almost exclusively), and many didn't get much of a childhood either. Imagine all those farmers' kids that start working at 5 years old.
    It's clear Michael had a lot of mental health issues, including PTSD (His father was incredibly abusive) and raging paranoia (including believing that Sony was going to assassinate him). To say that Michael was experiencing long-term regression in the mix isn't unreasonable. It was an incredibly weird way of showing it, not going to lie, but he also acted like that around grown-ups as well when he could.

    And his two accusers in the documentary knew about the secret sex room hidden inside Jackson's closet.
    You mean that, "Secret Sex Room," that the cops uncovered back in the early 2000s and found absolutely nothing illegal?

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/no-ch...b0f06648f4a3f8
    The problem is that the police documents in question and the list of items seized from Neverland are not ďnewĒ or ďrecently unearthedĒ documents, as some media outlets have mistakenly claimed in an effort to bolster salacious headlines.

    These were all items that were entered in court back in 2005 ― items that were well known to both the prosecution and defense and were presented before both Judge Melville and the jury. None of the items seized from Neverland fit the legal definition of child pornography, and in fact many of the items that are currently creating the most media hysteria were not pornographic at all. They were legal art books; a few of them containing some examples of adult erotica, but again, these were not titles that could be in any way deemed as pornographic or even obscene. This isnít to say that Jackson didnít own any pornography at all. The truth was that a sizable amount of adult heterosexual pornography had been confiscated in the raid, but Jackson was a grown man and this type of pornography is not illegal to own.


    Guilty as sin. Only fans of Jackson's music ever believed him innocent.
    Some of us believe in, "Innocent Until Proven Guilty," so if someone can actually prove he was guilty I'll go back to believing he was a pedophile.

    And for the record (pun intended), I don't own a single album of his... and I only like The Three Songs That Everyone Does (Billie Jean, Thriller, Smooth Criminal).
    Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

  12. #10
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Well this certainly took a different direction sooner than expected.

    Back to the OP, my point is that often you can look at a single event and realize that it is the death knell for a particular movement. I think this qualified. We now had a line drawn that flies directly in the face of the entire #MeToo movement[1] much in the same way that the left's determined defense of Bill Clinton put an end to the movement against workplace sexual harassment. Clinton had even just signed, with much fanfare, a law making it essentially illegal for a boss or supervisor to seek to have an affair with an employee who is under him (no pun intended), but that was tossed right out the window when Clinton did it.





    1. No Jackson doesn't count in that he was dead years before the start of the #MeToo movement.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

  13. Amen Chaotic Void amen'd this post.

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