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Impeachment Standards: Dershowitz and Philbin

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  • Originally posted by Sam View Post
    Maybe the party can edge Romney out, too, and continue the mendacious claim that no Republicans voted to impeach or convict.

    --Sam
    You're doing that snitty thing, Sam, for which you unceremoniously kicked me out of one of your threads.

    However, I'll be gracious and pretend you're actually wanting to discuss this, and say that I, for one, respect Romney's right to vote his conscience.

    I seriously doubt the Democrats will want him, other than to gloat that the conviction was "bipartisan", and he just claimed he agrees with the President 80% of the time (I think that was the number he used).

    Trump will pitch a hissy fit, as he is wont to do, and won't ever forget this, but by and large, Romney votes with the Republicans, so I think he'll be just fine.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      The person that you keep trying to present as a Republican wasn't edged out or as you've previously claimed "run out." He left of his own volition. Much in the same way that Reagan as well as Trump were Democrats at one time but increasingly disagreed with them and so left the party. But using Sam Logic™ we should consider them to be Democrat presidents
      Anyone whose brain hasn't fallen out can look at Amash's political career and political ideology, review the relevant articles and interviews, and understand perfectly well that Amash was pushed out as a casualty of conscience in an increasingly Trump-loyal GOP. As Trump puts in a big play for Michigan in 2020 (he'll need it), Amash's primary outlook as a non-Trumpist Republican was dicey at best and going to be bloody.

      It does require a dose of honest assessment but, again, not a big dose.

      --Sam
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        You're doing that snitty thing, Sam, for which you unceremoniously kicked me out of one of your threads.

        However, I'll be gracious and pretend you're actually wanting to discuss this, and say that I, for one, respect Romney's right to vote his conscience.

        I seriously doubt the Democrats will want him, other than to gloat that the conviction was "bipartisan", and he just claimed he agrees with the President 80% of the time (I think that was the number he used).

        Trump will pitch a hissy fit, as he is wont to do, and won't ever forget this, but by and large, Romney votes with the Republicans, so I think he'll be just fine.

        I'm using that post to respond to another post on this thread that, once again, conveniently disappeared Justin Amash so that a mendacious talking point could be repeated. I respect both Amash's and Romney's principled stands on this issue and it rather bugs me to see the Michigander ignored.

        I'm wrapping up my TWeb time, given the end of the impeachment saga, but if you want substance over snitty I'm still willing to have a meritorious conversation about the standard Dershowitz and Philbin set for impeachment.

        --Sam
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Anyone whose brain hasn't fallen out can look at Amash's political career and political ideology, review the relevant articles and interviews, and understand perfectly well that Amash was pushed out as a casualty of conscience in an increasingly Trump-loyal GOP. As Trump puts in a big play for Michigan in 2020 (he'll need it), Amash's primary outlook as a non-Trumpist Republican was dicey at best and going to be bloody.

          It does require a dose of honest assessment but, again, not a big dose.

          --Sam
          And how many pro lifers are left in the Democrat party?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            And how many pro lifers are left in the Democrat party?
            Ah, who was the woman who asked Mayor Pete about "pro-life Democrats"? Lemme find that....

            Pete Buttigieg Tells Woman Her Pro-Life Views Not Welcomed In Democrat Party
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
              Anyone whose brain hasn't fallen out can look at Amash's political career and political ideology, review the relevant articles and interviews, and understand perfectly well that Amash was pushed out as a casualty of conscience in an increasingly Trump-loyal GOP. As Trump puts in a big play for Michigan in 2020 (he'll need it), Amash's primary outlook as a non-Trumpist Republican was dicey at best and going to be bloody.

              It does require a dose of honest assessment but, again, not a big dose.

              --Sam
              Yeah he hates Trump with a passion. He's hardly the only Republican[1] to do so. I'd be surprised if you never heard of the Never Trumpers or know who they consist of.

              Any who... none of this changes the fact that it was all his choice to leave the Republican party. He did so because he increasingly disagreed with the party and the direction they were heading -- just like Reagan and Trump left the Democrat party because they too disagreed with the party and the direction they were heading.








              1. He's far more libertarian than conservative leading to Karl Rove calling him the "most liberal Republican" back in 2013 well before Trump's rise.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Ah, who was the woman who asked Mayor Pete about "pro-life Democrats"? Lemme find that....

                Pete Buttigieg Tells Woman Her Pro-Life Views Not Welcomed In Democrat Party
                And let's not forget how the governor of New York, Andrew Cuomo, once declared that pro-life conservatives "have no place" in his state.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Yeah, this is the party that used to preach inclusivity and tolerance.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    And how many pro lifers are left in the Democrat party?
                    More pro-life Democratic members in the House and Senate than Republicans who voted to impeach or convict Trump so I'm not sure that's the comparison you want to make.

                    --Sam
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      More pro-life Democratic members in the House and Senate...
                      Unfortunately, a dying breed, Sam.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        You're not responding to the argument -- more accurately, you're walking around in circles.

                        The question was asked what the President should do if he receives information of potential wrongdoing from a foreign source. The appropriate answer is that the President should relay that information and its source to the FBI for potential investigation.
                        He received the information from Biden himself. And he wanted to discuss it with Zelensky and ask him to look into it. Since it happened to his country and the prosecutor was Ukraininan as well as Burisma. I am sure if there was a there there, he would have involved Barr who could have made it official. The FBI has nothing to do with it unless Barr was to involve them. The attorney general is the Central Authority in the MLAT.


                        You've tried to shift that answer toward what Trump actually did instead of relay any such information, as well as its source, by arguing that USA is legally obligated to investigate any corruption in Ukraine, using the MLAT as justification for that claim but completely misrepresenting how the MLAT is used. You've refused to acknowledge that the President specifically avoided relaying that information to his domestic investigative agencies and instead concocted a practice -- hitherto unknown in American history -- of a President initiating a lawful investigation of US persons by asking a foreign country to investigate what would be domestic criminal activity.

                        And you've put yourself into an argument where you'd have to stipulate that the President is now legally obligated to demand investigations of potential wrongdoing into his personal attorney and other close associates (i.e., Lev Parnas, Paul Manafort, General Flynn, etc.) but has completely failed to do so, either through domestic agencies or foreign governments.

                        And that's the problem with doing this thing ad-hoc. Without a guiding principle and adherence to truth and facts, you end up undercutting the very argument you're trying to build.

                        --Sam
                        No you are just reading what you want into what I say. I am sorry if I am not as precise with my language as you are, Mr. Picker of Nits. Impeach me. When I say "the USA has a legal obligation" I am talking about the country who's executive head is currently Trump. So Trump represents the "USA" - and yes, his duty as President does obligate him to stop corruption. Especially if that corruption would involve someone who could potentially become the President. He swore an oath to protect this country and constitution.

                        And no I didn't avoid anything. It never got to the point where Trump would pass it on to Barr officially before the democrats had a hissy fit.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          I'm using that post to respond to another post on this thread that, once again, conveniently disappeared Justin Amash...
                          Oh please do tell exactly how Amash was "disappeared."
                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          I'm wrapping up my TWeb time, given the end of the impeachment saga, but if you want substance over snitty I'm still willing to have a meritorious conversation about the standard Dershowitz and Philbin set for impeachment.

                          --Sam
                          Fair to say that your snittiness has something to do with being upset at how the impeachment circus ended?

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            I'm wrapping up my TWeb time, given the end of the impeachment saga, but if you want substance over snitty I'm still willing to have a meritorious conversation about the standard Dershowitz and Philbin set for impeachment.

                            --Sam
                            I was just noting your obvious hypocrisy, Sam. And, for cryin' out loud, you're sounding like the guy who keeps announcing he's leaving so somebody will beg him to stay.

                            Go away from my window, leave at your own chosen speed, I'm not the one you want, BABE, I'm not the one you need...


                            Regardless. You'll be back.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I was just noting your obvious hypocrisy, Sam. And, for cryin' out loud, you're sounding like the guy who keeps announcing he's leaving so somebody will beg him to stay.

                              Go away from my window, leave at your own chosen speed, I'm not the one you want, BABE, I'm not the one you need...


                              Regardless. You'll be back.
                              You weren't asked to leave the previous thread because you were being snarky; you were asked to leave because, right after agreeing with the concept of "You can be snarky but you also have to contribute to the topic", you proceeded to be snarky without contributing to the topic. As you're doing on this thread.

                              The possibility of coming back will always be there but, for better or worse, the temptation has been far lessened by folks who have decided to jettison the last vestiges of reason and honor because it turns out to be more fun blindly following whatever negative polarization game the culture is feeding up today. I gave myself a self-imposed end-date at impeachment and here we are. I have no interest in sitting through what this place is gonna look like for the 2020 campaign.

                              So stay on topic or not; I won't be around to care. But do try to stop, from time to time, and consider just how much or how little truth you're working to put out into the world through that handle and consider whether you're meeting the high standard.

                              --Sam
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                He received the information from Biden himself. And he wanted to discuss it with Zelensky and ask him to look into it. Since it happened to his country and the prosecutor was Ukraininan as well as Burisma. I am sure if there was a there there, he would have involved Barr who could have made it official. The FBI has nothing to do with it unless Barr was to involve them. The attorney general is the Central Authority in the MLAT.




                                No you are just reading what you want into what I say. I am sorry if I am not as precise with my language as you are, Mr. Picker of Nits. Impeach me. When I say "the USA has a legal obligation" I am talking about the country who's executive head is currently Trump. So Trump represents the "USA" - and yes, his duty as President does obligate him to stop corruption. Especially if that corruption would involve someone who could potentially become the President. He swore an oath to protect this country and constitution.

                                And no I didn't avoid anything. It never got to the point where Trump would pass it on to Barr officially before the democrats had a hissy fit.
                                Trump asked Zelensky to investigate the Bidens on July 25; Giuliani was pushing Zelensky's administration for those same investigations since May. Democrats had their "hissy fit" starting at the end of August. But DOJ says that Barr was never involved in Trump's attempt.

                                That's a whole month of time when Trump should have, by your argument, been getting Barr to set up a FBI investigation (and, yes, it would have been FBI who handled the MLAT) but ... didn't. You've persistently avoided that simple fact.

                                --Sam
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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