Climate change and global warming 2020

[Teallaura]

I suggest you read more of the internet then - the argument that it's all about funding is pretty prevalent.

I wasn't aware that scientists attempted to amass political power through alarmism. Maybe you can provide examples?

I suggest you read a LOT more political analysis. You're mistaking the horse for the rider - in both cases.


Evidence by source:

EG: IPCC, Greenpeace, UN, EU, et al (lesser degree: NASA, NOAA)

Specific: EU demands for greater sovereignty, Greta Thunberg, Inc., the aforementioned funding, the ever humorous '97%' and 'settled science' as means of quashing dissent...

It's a fairly complex argument but that's not surprising - even the Empire has its muddling through. People are messy that way.

[shunyadragon]

I suggest you read a LOT more political analysis. You're mistaking the horse for the rider - in both cases.


Evidence by source:

EG: IPCC, Greenpeace, UN, EU, et al (lesser degree: NASA, NOAA)

Specific: EU demands for greater sovereignty, Greta Thunberg, Inc., the aforementioned funding, the ever humorous '97%' and 'settled science' as means of quashing dissent...

It's a fairly complex argument but that's not surprising - even the Empire has its muddling through. People are messy that way.

In this thread I have cited strictly scientific research and the factual evidence for global warming from different sources without politics. The opposition to global warming has not cited scientific evidence as demonstrated by your responses.

[Teallaura]

In this thread I have cited strictly scientific research and the factual evidence for global warming from different sources without politics. The opposition to global warming has not cited scientific evidence as demonstrated by your responses.

I addressed Lurch's argument, which mistakenly asserts that the scam conclusion comes from the funding issue. There was no need to cite temp evidence regarding those objections to a wholly political argument. (To be fair, I only commented and didn't even lay out the whole argument - which is also not necessary here.)

Besides, you (general) are weighting temperature data - 180 years of thermometer tech and you can't reliably collect the most basic of data? Riiiight... instills soooo much trust in the computer models that have failed to deliver a single accurate prediction in now 20 years. Meanwhile, atmospheric carbon levels are supposedly at historic lows and commercial growers routinely inject CO² into growing houses as do aquariums that house live plants. Desertification reversal efforts and land reclaimation efforts that concentrate on site specific management are showing actual positive results where 50 years of UN sponsorship show the dead opposite.

Give us your autonomy, money and sovereignty and we'll save the planet by throwing a temper tantrum prone teen at it - and just ignore the crazy woman saying the planet only has twelve years - unless that makes you want to give us more money. Hurry, Global Warming ^TM will probably happen anyway in a thousand years whether or not you act now! Don't be a poopiehead on the wrong side of Science!^TM

Riiight... Hmm, I wonder if one of those CO² systems will work in a tall tunnel?

[TheLurch]

I suggest you read a LOT more political analysis. You're mistaking the horse for the rider - in both cases.


Evidence by source:

EG: IPCC, Greenpeace, UN, EU, et al (lesser degree: NASA, NOAA)

Specific: EU demands for greater sovereignty, Greta Thunberg, Inc., the aforementioned funding, the ever humorous '97%' and 'settled science' as means of quashing dissent...

It's a fairly complex argument but that's not surprising - even the Empire has its muddling through. People are messy that way.

I'm sorry, but i couldn't follow that at all. What exactly is your argument here?

[TheLurch]

Besides, you (general) are weighting temperature data - 180 years of thermometer tech and you can't reliably collect the most basic of data?

What, exactly, is your issue with the temperature data?

Riiiight... instills soooo much trust in the computer models that have failed to deliver a single accurate prediction in now 20 years.

That's simply false, and i've started an entire thread about it previously, so it's not like the information isn't here.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...-little-update

Meanwhile, atmospheric carbon levels are supposedly at historic lows and commercial growers routinely inject CO² into growing houses as do aquariums that house live plants.

That's also false. The planet hasn't seen this level of CO2 in its atmosphere for millions of years, information that's available from Wikipedia if you'd bother to check.
(which provides a citation to this paper: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rsta.2013.0096)

Where do you get your information from? Wherever it is, you should reconsider its reliability.

[shunyadragon]

I addressed Lurch's argument, which mistakenly asserts that the scam conclusion comes from the funding issue. There was no need to cite temp evidence regarding those objections to a wholly political argument. (To be fair, I only commented and didn't even lay out the whole argument - which is also not necessary here.)

Besides, you (general) are weighting temperature data - 180 years of thermometer tech and you can't reliably collect the most basic of data? Riiiight... instills soooo much trust in the computer models that have failed to deliver a single accurate prediction in now 20 years. Meanwhile, atmospheric carbon levels are supposedly at historic lows and commercial growers routinely inject CO² into growing houses as do aquariums that house live plants. Desertification reversal efforts and land reclaimation efforts that concentrate on site specific management are showing actual positive results where 50 years of UN sponsorship show the dead opposite.

Give us your autonomy, money and sovereignty and we'll save the planet by throwing a temper tantrum prone teen at it - and just ignore the crazy woman saying the planet only has twelve years - unless that makes you want to give us more money. Hurry, Global Warming ^TM will probably happen anyway in a thousand years whether or not you act now! Don't be a poopiehead on the wrong side of Science!^TM

Riiight... Hmm, I wonder if one of those CO² systems will work in a tall tunnel?

First the evidence is root simple, and does not require heavy funding from any one regardless, The dramatic rise in CO2 since the industrial Revolution parallels the rise in air and sea temperatures, sea levels, and the melting of the ice capes. The rest of the scientific research supports this regardless of the funding sources. There is no 'objective verifiable evidence' nor scientific research supports the detractors to global warming like you. You need evidence and science and rhetoric.

This global warming event matches prior global warming events that parallel the the rise of CO2 in the past with rising sea levels. If the parallel relationship continues the Piedmont of the Eastern USA will be ocean front property as it was in the past.

This thread will cite real scientific research and data supporting global warming.

[shunyadragon]

This research was done for the Northern latitudes of the USA, but I believe this applies all over the world. The Tropical latitudes have changed little or no change at all, and the most Northern latitudes are warming. The exception is Antarctica where it is protected by the currents around Antarctica. The increasingly warm under sea currents upwelling along the coastal regions is what is melting the glaciers.

Source: https://www.npr.org/2020/02/18/803125282/how-warming-winters-are-affecting-everything?ft=nprml&f=1001

How Warming Winters Are Affecting Everything

Winters are warming faster than other seasons across much of the United States. While that may sound like a welcome change for those bundled in scarves and hats, it's causing a cascade of unpredictable impacts in communities across the country.

Temperatures continue to steadily rise around the globe, but that trend isn't spread evenly across the map or even the yearly calendar.

"The cold seasons are warming faster than the warm seasons," says Deke Arndt, chief of climate monitoring at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's National Centers for Environmental Information. "The colder times of day are warming faster than warmer times of day. And the colder places are warming faster than the warmer places."

In the U.S., that means winters in both Maine and Alaska are around 5 degrees Fahrenheit hotter on average since the early 1900s. One reason: The snowpack, which is a good reflector of sunlight, is melting earlier in the season. With fewer days of snow cover, sunlight is absorbed into the ground and warms the surrounding area.

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[shunyadragon]

Ice is gone from Hollands canals no Elfstedentocht is a 125-mile race across 11 Dutch cities since 1997.

Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elfstedentocht-climate-change-moves-netherlands-outdoor-speed-skating-race-to-austria-60-minutes-2020-03-04/

Climate change moves legendary Dutch outdoor speed skating race to Austria

The Elfstedentocht is a 125-mile race across 11 Dutch cities over frozen water, but it hasn't actually been held in the Netherlands since 1997. 60 Minutes reports on how racers are coping with that, Sunday.

The Elfstedentocht is the longest, most punishing outdoor speed skating race in the world. And it's been an essential part of Dutch life since 1909. Held in the northern province of Friesland, the 125-mile race links 11 cities over frozen canals and waterways. But climate change has changed all that, and now the race is under threat. Bill Whitaker reports on an alternative race in the Austrian Alps that's drawing thousands of Dutch skaters on the next edition of 60 Minutes Sunday, March 8, at 7 p.m. ET/PT on CBS.

It hasn't been cold enough to hold the Elfstedentocht in the Netherlands since 1997. A group of enthusiasts in 1989 began holding an alternative event 750 miles away in the tiny Austrian mountain lake town of Weissensee. It's now attracting several thousand skaters, nearly all Dutch, and making for one heck of a party in a town that swells to about 6,000 for the event.

60 Minutes cameras capture the excitement of the race, the different kinds of skaters and the exuberant crowds drawn to the hamlet for perhaps the biggest skating party in the world. The boisterous celebration after the race is called "The Blister Ball."

It starts before dawn with skaters wearing helmet lights and ends well after dusk. For the top-notch racers skating 125 miles, it takes about seven hours to finish. Others aim to skate half that distance or a personal best. Many skaters start in the dark and end in the dark. There was even one veteran skater who fixed blades to his walker.

Whitaker spoke to the Blom family who drove 11 hours from the Netherlands to get to Weissensee. Twenty of them skated. The youngest, 10-year-old Jenrique, toughed out 60 miles. It took over nine hours.

Whitaker also found an American who'd made the trek from the United States to Austria. Howard Morris, a librarian from Minnesota, dreamt of skating the Elfstedentocht when he began speed skating. A Dutch friend told him he'd have to go to Austria to find ice. "It's the reality of the times," says Morris. "I know some people fear that the whole tradition of skating will die out because of the change in winters."

Even in Weissensee, there are worrying signs. High in the mountains, there was almost no snow in the village and ice wasn't thick enough in some parts of the lake to use its entire surface for the race.

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[shunyadragon]

Interesting research of patterns of sea level rise due to global warming in the recent past.

Source: https://www.heritagedaily.com/2020/03/paleontologists-discover-solid-evidence-of-formerly-elusive-abrupt-sea-level-jump/126255

Paleontologists Discover Solid Evidence of Formerly Elusive Abrupt Sea-level Jump

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[shunyadragon]

Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/ice-loss-antarctica-greenland-increased-sixfold-last-30-years-n1158161

Ice loss in Antarctica and Greenland increased sixfold in the last 30 years
The rapid ice loss puts the world on track for the "worst case" climate scenario.

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[oxmixmudd]

If we are responsible it does not necessarily mean we can do anything about it. Could be that the horse has bolted. Do you think we can stop the natural disasters? Surely not?

We have some power over some of them.

Earthquakes: we do not currently have a practical means of predicting or stopping them. We might have the capacity to trigger them prematurely.

Tornadoes: not much there either in terms of control. Prediction is coming along though.

Fires: Yes, we routinely do stop fires of various kinds, although it takes a lot more effort than starting them. There is a point where a fire can become so hot and so large we lose control over that immediate area, but then we work to starve it out in the surrounding regions. And we also have the power to reduce the potential for fires.

Floods: Yes - we have been building dams and controlling or redirecting flood waters for millenia. So it's more a matter of degree and will. Could we build structures to contain the largest floods. Perhaps, but at so great a cost there would be no practical reason to do so.

Can we stop the natural causes of Fires and Floods? Not so much.

Climate change: The evidence is we are a significant component of the current rate and extent of the change. Can we control the natural cycles that start and stop ice ages? no. Can we change the atmospheric composition so that it makes things warmer - yes, and we have. Can we reduce the GHG in the atmosphere? We can stop increasing them. And we even have some capability to remove them. So, again as with floods and fires, it boils down to the cost/benefit ratio how much we actually do that we have the power to do. But unlike hurricanes and tornadoes, we do in fact have the capacity to change the direction of the trend wrt global warming.

[shunyadragon]

For those who have delusions that human efforts can resolve the problem of Global Warming. First, the present efforts are neither universal, coordinated, and the motivation is not their for most countries, except maybe China. Second . . .

Source: https://www.heraldsun.com/news/coronavirus/article241503116.html

Ralph Keeling estimates that global fossil fuel use would have to decline by 10% for a full year to clearly impact CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere

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[shunyadragon]

Source: https://www.sciencealert.com/earth-is-way-way-dustier-than-we-thought-and-that-has-big-implications-for-climate-change

Earth's Atmosphere Is 4x Dustier Than We Thought, Which Could Change Climate Models

CARLY CASSELLA19 APRIL 2020

Climate models are an invaluable tool for predicting the trajectory of the climate crisis, but we need them to be as accurate as possible if we're going to model everything from its pace, to its consequences, to its tipping points.


Now, it seems we need to adjust some numbers on the true dustiness of Earth's atmosphere - a property that plays a vital role in climate systems.

Comparing data from dozens of airborne observations throughout the world, a new study has found our planet's atmosphere contains about 17 million metric tonnes of coarse dust (which is larger than fine dust). This is four times more than is simulated in current climate models.

That's roughly the mass of every single person in the United States put together, and if that's really what's going on here, we have a lot of recalculating to do.

This tiny, invisible matter tends to warm the atmosphere a lot like greenhouse gases do, and yet in six widely-used global atmospheric simulations, most of that coarse dust appears to be missing.

"When we compared our results with what is predicted by current climate models, we found a drastic difference," says atmospheric and oceanic scientist Jasper Kok from the University of California Los Angeles.

"State-of-the-art climate models account for only 4 million metric tons, but our results showed more than four times that amount."


If they're right, that means these simulations aren't incorporating nearly enough dust. And this could have a big impact on many of Earth's systems, from the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed in the ocean to the volume of rain falling in, say, the tropics.

More dust being driven up into the atmosphere and more of it falling into the ocean, could lead to big changes in clouds, precipitation and climate.

Between Earth and the Sun, these coarse particles cop incoming radiation from both above and below. This can cause changes in atmospheric circulation, potentially driving phenomena like hurricanes, which have, incidentally, been increasing in frequency and severity with climate change.

What's more, if you add these new dust numbers into current climate models, the authors say it increases the likelihood of both fine and coarse particles contributing to a warming climate system, from the atmosphere above to the oceans below.

"Models have been an invaluable tool for scientists," says atmospheric and oceanic scientist Adeyemi Adebiyi from UCLA, "but when they miss most of the coarse dust in the atmosphere, it underestimates the impact that this type of dust has on critical aspects of life on Earth, from precipitation to cloud cover to ocean ecosystems to global temperature."


For instance, the researchers say when dust is around, air tends to act more turbulently, keeping it up in the atmosphere for longer, allowing them to travel further than many models give them credit for.

In 2018, in fact, researchers discovered that large particles of dust kicked up in the Sahara can ride on global winds to the Caribbean, 3,500 kilometres (2,000 miles) away. Measuring at 0.45 millimetres in diameter, these pieces of dust were nearly 50 times bigger than what global winds were once thought capable of carrying.

sahara 1024
(Climate.gov)

That astonishing idea is supported by this new research, albeit less directly.

"Since more coarse dust particles are present in the atmosphere, it also suggests that they have a longer lifetime than those simulated in global models," the authors write.

And yet today, many models have all this coarse dust fall out of the atmosphere far too quickly.

"To properly represent the impact of dust as a whole on the Earth system, climate models must include an accurate treatment of coarse dust in the atmosphere," says Adebiyi.

Our climate models are constantly being updated as we learn more about our planet, and this is just one aspect that seems to need a makeover. With the new information available, we'll be better equipped to determine Earth's future.

The study was published in Science Advances.

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[shunyadragon]

Changes in solar activity in an eleven year cycle leading to the solar minimum in the next few years may effect global warming to a small degree, despite some sensationalist headlines from questionable press. We are in a solar minimum. The bottom line is the effect is small, but the solar minimum may reduce the interference problem of solar radiation spikes on communications.

Source: https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2910/what-is-the-suns-role-in-climate-change/

What Is the Sun's Role in Climate Change?https://scijinks.gov/solar-cycle/

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[shunyadragon]

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/europe/may-copernicus-hottest-record-scli-intl/index.html

Last month was the hottest May on record, as the world creeps closer to a dangerous threshold
By Rob Picheta, CNN

(CNN)Last month was the hottest May on record worldwide, a European climate agency has reported, with temperatures in Siberia rising 10 degrees Celsius (18 degrees Fahrenheit) above their normal levels.

Globally, May was 0.63 degrees Celsius warmer than the average May between 1981 and 2010, making it the warmest May in this data record, the Copernicus Climate Change Service said.

And when compared with pre-industrial figures, their recordings indicate that the world is creeping dangerously close to the temperature threshold that international organizations warn would be so devastating to the planet if exceeded.

The Copernicus figures correlate to a 1.26 degree Celsius rise on pre-industrial levels for May. Global temperatures must be kept from rising above 1.5 degrees Celsius on those levels to avoid major impacts on the climate, the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has concluded.

May's increase follows a clear trend recorded by Copernicus over the past year. In the last 12-month period up to May, global temperatures were 0.7 degrees Celsius warmer than average -- matching the previous year-long high between October 2015 and September 2016.

Europe generally was slightly colder than average, but with sharp geographical differences, the report said.

The most striking spike was in Siberia, the typically freezing region that spans much of Russia, which was up 10 degrees Celsius on average levels.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has this week ordered a state of emergency in the Siberian city of Norilsk, after 20,000 tons of fuel spilled into a nearby river from a power station in an incident officials are blaming on melting permafrost in the region.

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