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Christianity and religious freedom (with Brazil as a test case)

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  • Christianity and religious freedom (with Brazil as a test case)

    I apologize if I hit anybody's paywall. I haven't read a Washington Post article in a long time so I had no problem reading this one...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...rce=reddit.com


    Essentially, armed Pentecostalists have taken it on themselves to rid the country of indigenous religious beliefs by destroying their places of worship. However, it's gone even beyond that; they have killed people, and even stoned children in the process. Apparently some evangelists are targeting gang leaders for conversion, but not imploring them to leave the gang lifestyle, but rather to use their influence to Christian-ize the violence in the inner cities (the Israeli flag has become a gang symbol).

    The article notes that mainstream evangelicals in Brazil are horrified and quotes one evangelist who denounces the violence but supports spiritual warfare.

    I don't *think* anybody here other than maybe a couple people would be in support of the violence so that's not my real topic for discussion. My question is, where do Christians draw the line as far as religious freedom goes? In the Old Testament, when the Jews did have political power, the message was clear that they were not to allow paganism to flourish, and idols were to be destroyed. In the New Testament, when the Christians did *not* have political power, things were different. Paul did not run around smashing all the idols at Mars Hill while he looked at them. I have to admit, though, that I was not outraged like most Westerners were when the Afghanistan government started destroying Buddhist statues. It didn't seem like something Christians should be fighting for.

    In Brazil, Christians *do* have political power. I think American Christians generally recognize that religious freedom is something that can work in your favor, and religious restrictions can be placed against you once the winds change. This hasn't always been the case, of course. Children are taught in schools that the Pilgrims moved here for religious freedom, but the teachers tend to skip over that executions for religious offenses were common in New England for the next century or so. American Christians now generally view that as unwise/unjustified, and I'd agree. So what is the best way to approach the issue of religious diversity?
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    I believe that truth can stand up for itself. Besides this violence doesn't seem justifiable. The governmental system of Isreal was a theocratic one in which God himself was supposed to lead, but even them people didn't want God to lead. God himself told folks what would happen if they had kings and they still wanted one.

    We must remember that though God is willing to fight he takes no joy in suffering or violence. God wants people to know him and to know truth and justice and love. I believe that that is what we are called to do.

    I do believe that people have the right to defend their lives as well as their property and community.

    I honestly think wanton destruction will only make folks think people are being hypocritical when people say that Jesus came to upend evil. Jesus did say he came to bring a sword but the sword he carries is not one like ours.

    I know it all sounds rather trite but I dont really know what else to say.
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    • #3
      Religion has historically been integral with national culture and identity. It has been hard to separate the tight bond of religion and government. However, the American colonies carried this aspect over from Europe. It took the goal of a unified nation to create a United States and ultimately to provide a cooperation among various Christians groups.

      Since we are not in the OT context, Christians are not called to remove religious symbols/idols/structures of other people from the land. (I would make an exception if the symbols/idols/structures were within a context of overthrowing our freedom.)

      People are given the choice to come to Christ rather than coming by external compulsion. Any acts of destruction or force therefore are unwarranted and would cause distaste toward Christianity. There could also be retribution. I would think that the type of wisdom expressed here would be shared in Brazil both within congregations and publicly in order to point out the improper behavior of the destructive Christian groups.

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      • #4
        Yeah this reminds me of the Westboro group. Using hate for Jesus. Forcing conversions [especially through violence] is diametrically opposed to what Christianity is all about.
        [I couldn't read the actual article because of the paywall]

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Yeah this reminds me of the Westboro group. Using hate for Jesus. Forcing conversions [especially through violence] is diametrically opposed to what Christianity is all about.
          [I couldn't read the actual article because of the paywall]
          Westboro reads parts of the bible where it says hate and fail to look into the context of the word.
          For instance after Laban scams the patriarch into marrying a completely different woman the text says he hated one and loved another. However sociocultural data shows that this doesn't add up. After all he stayed with her and brought her honor by providing children.

          Another thing is that we as humans can not despise evil in the same way God does. When the text speaks of the wrath of God for instance wrath is used because it is the closest a human could get to understanding what God feels concerning his righteous disposition towards evil. We can relate of course but we are not God.

          The truth is most of throughout our lives have so much we have to fix up about ourselves before we really can help anyone without making a hypocritical ass of ourselves.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            I apologize if I hit anybody's paywall. I haven't read a Washington Post article in a long time so I had no problem reading this one...

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...rce=reddit.com


            Essentially, armed Pentecostalists have taken it on themselves to rid the country of indigenous religious beliefs by destroying their places of worship. However, it's gone even beyond that; they have killed people, and even stoned children in the process. Apparently some evangelists are targeting gang leaders for conversion, but not imploring them to leave the gang lifestyle, but rather to use their influence to Christian-ize the violence in the inner cities (the Israeli flag has become a gang symbol).

            The article notes that mainstream evangelicals in Brazil are horrified and quotes one evangelist who denounces the violence but supports spiritual warfare.

            I don't *think* anybody here other than maybe a couple people would be in support of the violence so that's not my real topic for discussion. My question is, where do Christians draw the line as far as religious freedom goes? In the Old Testament, when the Jews did have political power, the message was clear that they were not to allow paganism to flourish, and idols were to be destroyed. In the New Testament, when the Christians did *not* have political power, things were different. Paul did not run around smashing all the idols at Mars Hill while he looked at them. I have to admit, though, that I was not outraged like most Westerners were when the Afghanistan government started destroying Buddhist statues. It didn't seem like something Christians should be fighting for.

            In Brazil, Christians *do* have political power. I think American Christians generally recognize that religious freedom is something that can work in your favor, and religious restrictions can be placed against you once the winds change. This hasn't always been the case, of course. Children are taught in schools that the Pilgrims moved here for religious freedom, but the teachers tend to skip over that executions for religious offenses were common in New England for the next century or so. American Christians now generally view that as unwise/unjustified, and I'd agree. So what is the best way to approach the issue of religious diversity?
            Source: �Soldiers of Jesus�: Armed neo-Pentecostals torment Brazil�s religious minorities

            Article continues at link below*]


            Source

            © Copyright Original Source


            That should more than suffice to set the stage.

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            • #7
              This article makes some good points and asks some good questions about the WaPo article.

              IMO, it's a problem that there is, AFAICT, only one source reporting this story directly, and a further complication that the source is paywalled.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                This article makes some good points and asks some good questions about the WaPo article.

                IMO, it's a problem that there is, AFAICT, only one source reporting this story directly, and a further complication that the source is paywalled.
                The getreligon.org reminds us why we have to be careful about news. If the reporters and editors don't make sure to get the full story, we end up with improper or incomplete understanding of the world around us.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  I apologize if I hit anybody's paywall. I haven't read a Washington Post article in a long time so I had no problem reading this one...

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...rce=reddit.com


                  Essentially, armed Pentecostalists have taken it on themselves to rid the country of indigenous religious beliefs by destroying their places of worship. However, it's gone even beyond that; they have killed people, and even stoned children in the process. Apparently some evangelists are targeting gang leaders for conversion, but not imploring them to leave the gang lifestyle, but rather to use their influence to Christian-ize the violence in the inner cities (the Israeli flag has become a gang symbol).

                  The article notes that mainstream evangelicals in Brazil are horrified and quotes one evangelist who denounces the violence but supports spiritual warfare.

                  I don't *think* anybody here other than maybe a couple people would be in support of the violence so that's not my real topic for discussion. My question is, where do Christians draw the line as far as religious freedom goes? In the Old Testament, when the Jews did have political power, the message was clear that they were not to allow paganism to flourish, and idols were to be destroyed. In the New Testament, when the Christians did *not* have political power, things were different. Paul did not run around smashing all the idols at Mars Hill while he looked at them. I have to admit, though, that I was not outraged like most Westerners were when the Afghanistan government started destroying Buddhist statues. It didn't seem like something Christians should be fighting for.

                  In Brazil, Christians *do* have political power. I think American Christians generally recognize that religious freedom is something that can work in your favor, and religious restrictions can be placed against you once the winds change. This hasn't always been the case, of course. Children are taught in schools that the Pilgrims moved here for religious freedom, but the teachers tend to skip over that executions for religious offenses were common in New England for the next century or so. American Christians now generally view that as unwise/unjustified, and I'd agree. So what is the best way to approach the issue of religious diversity?
                  That's not really indigenous beliefs, but importations from Africa. Indigenous religion is protected from evangelization efforts by outsiders (which is why my dad's church supports AMMI, a training center devoted to educating indigenous pastors.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    I apologize if I hit anybody's paywall. I haven't read a Washington Post article in a long time so I had no problem reading this one...

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...rce=reddit.com


                    Essentially, armed Pentecostalists have taken it on themselves to rid the country of indigenous religious beliefs by destroying their places of worship. However, it's gone even beyond that; they have killed people, and even stoned children in the process. Apparently some evangelists are targeting gang leaders for conversion, but not imploring them to leave the gang lifestyle, but rather to use their influence to Christian-ize the violence in the inner cities (the Israeli flag has become a gang symbol).

                    The article notes that mainstream evangelicals in Brazil are horrified and quotes one evangelist who denounces the violence but supports spiritual warfare.

                    I don't *think* anybody here other than maybe a couple people would be in support of the violence so that's not my real topic for discussion. My question is, where do Christians draw the line as far as religious freedom goes? In the Old Testament, when the Jews did have political power, the message was clear that they were not to allow paganism to flourish, and idols were to be destroyed. In the New Testament, when the Christians did *not* have political power, things were different. Paul did not run around smashing all the idols at Mars Hill while he looked at them. I have to admit, though, that I was not outraged like most Westerners were when the Afghanistan government started destroying Buddhist statues. It didn't seem like something Christians should be fighting for.

                    In Brazil, Christians *do* have political power. I think American Christians generally recognize that religious freedom is something that can work in your favor, and religious restrictions can be placed against you once the winds change. This hasn't always been the case, of course. Children are taught in schools that the Pilgrims moved here for religious freedom, but the teachers tend to skip over that executions for religious offenses were common in New England for the next century or so. American Christians now generally view that as unwise/unjustified, and I'd agree. So what is the best way to approach the issue of religious diversity?
                    killed. Children have been stoned. An elderly woman was seriously injured


                    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.c...40737/%3famp=1

                    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/cruxn...s-capital/amp/

                    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.w...outputType=amp




                    https://biblehub.com/john/16-2.htm



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