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  • #16
    Originally posted by seanD View Post
    Being that the US throws it's global weight around on the back of a powerful military pretense, those countries you mentioned don't have to uphold a continuous aggressive bravado against those countries of Eurasia like the US does (not saying I agree with that, but it is what it is).
    ...you're claiming other countries strategic assessments of US military power would change if the President were gay?!?



    Countries in Eurasia, especially the middle east, don't exactly hold the same sentiments towards homosexuality as liberal white, feminist, soyboys do here in the west.
    I'm amused that you betas who pant after your 'alpha-male' Trump are so insecure you try to mock the masculinity of others.

    It's a totally different culture.
    The middle east has a complex variety of cultures, and male behavior there would often be viewed as extremely 'soyboy' by Westerners. In Egypt it's common for (straight) men to hold hands walking down the street. In Lebannon it's common for (straight) men to be pretty extreme 'metrosexuals' and spend hours doing themselves up in front of a mirror. In Afghanistan male warriors commonly wear eye makeup.

    The US military have been having endless issues in Afghanistan due to the local culture's endorsement of men raping boys or using them as sex-slaves, and when US soldiers have complained about it to their higher-ups they've generally been told to shut up and let their local allies follow local customs.

    In large parts of the middle east, male-male sexual interactions are controlled by an honor/shame dynamic where it is considered honorably 'masculine' to be the dominant partner and shamefully 'feminine' to have a sexual act performed on you by another, so it's often easy to find men reporting having a homosexual interaction but they 100% report having taken the masculine role in it. And in other parts of the middle east, homosexuality is totally illegal. It varies.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      ...you're claiming other countries strategic assessments of US military power would change if the President were gay?!?



      I'm amused that you betas who pant after your 'alpha-male' Trump are so insecure you try to mock the masculinity of others.

      The middle east has a complex variety of cultures, and male behavior there would often be viewed as extremely 'soyboy' by Westerners. In Egypt it's common for (straight) men to hold hands walking down the street. In Lebannon it's common for (straight) men to be pretty extreme 'metrosexuals' and spend hours doing themselves up in front of a mirror. In Afghanistan male warriors commonly wear eye makeup.

      The US military have been having endless issues in Afghanistan due to the local culture's endorsement of men raping boys or using them as sex-slaves, and when US soldiers have complained about it to their higher-ups they've generally been told to shut up and let their local allies follow local customs.

      In large parts of the middle east, male-male sexual interactions are controlled by an honor/shame dynamic where it is considered honorably 'masculine' to be the dominant partner and shamefully 'feminine' to have a sexual act performed on you by another, so it's often easy to find men reporting having a homosexual interaction but they 100% report having taken the masculine role in it. And in other parts of the middle east, homosexuality is totally illegal. It varies.
      I'm not talking about cultural differences of male-to-male affection, I'm talking about homosexuality, and more specifically, same-sex marriage. Your Afghanistan reference was apparently an isolated incident, because homosexuality carries the death penalty there. And though there are some Eurasian countries that appear to be "neutral," there are very few countries that actually recognize the rights of same-sex marriage:

      Untitled2.jpg

      So if your point is that there are some scattered rebellious counter culture groups here and there, sure, you have that in every culture, especially expected in an age influenced by information technology like ours.

      ETA: I have no idea how the attachment feature works on this site, so there you go.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
        Are you more comfortable with the optics of a thrice married serial adulterer?
        Those aren't optics. I don't see photos of "thrice married" and "serial adultery" (assuming the latter is even true).

        How come liberals couldn't care less about adultery when Bill Clinton was running the show? Now it's suddenly a show-stopper?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Would you be likely to vote for a different Dem nominee? Sanders seems the most likely one at this stage.
          The only Democrat I would even consider voting for is Gabbard. I think the rest are lunatics.

          Pete's only coming 5th in national polling in the Dem primary, and does very badly with people of color, so it isn't looking particularly likely he'll be the nominee.

          That's pretty much how I think about people who are anti-gay.
          I don't care if Buttigieg is gay, but I'd never vote for him for POTUS. It looks bad. Trump looks bad enough.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            I'm talking about homosexuality, and more specifically, same-sex marriage.
            I think how people would view/treat a President Pete Butigieg (insofar as they treat him any differently at all) would be a result of how they view homosexual behavior in their country, not a result of what the legal status of same sex marriage happens to be in their country. I don't think you're right to see same sex marriage laws as predictive of people's reaction to a gay US president.

            Your Afghanistan reference was apparently an isolated incident,
            I linked articles from across 4 years about the ongoing issues US military forces in Afghanistan were/are having with the local culture of boy-rape there. I'll assume that my links were paywalled for you and you didn't read them, so here's wikipedia on the subject of boy-rape in modern Afghanistani culture:

            Bacha bazi:

            Bacha bāzī is a slang term in Afghanistan for a wide variety of activities involving sexual relations between older men and younger adolescent men, or boys. The practitioner is commonly called bacha baz (meaning "boy play" in Dari) or simply bach. The custom is connected to sexual slavery and child prostitution.[1] In the 21st century, Bacha Bazi is reportedly practiced in various parts of Afghanistan.[2][3][4][5][6] Force and coercion are common, and security officials state they are unable to end such practices because many of the men involved in bacha bazi-related activities are powerful and well-armed warlords.[7][8][9]

            During the Afghan Civil War (1996–2001), bacha bazi carried the death penalty under Taliban law.[10] The practice of dancing boys is illegal under Afghan law, but the laws are seldom enforced against powerful offenders and police have reportedly been complicit in related crimes.[11][12]

            A controversy arose after allegations surfaced that U.S. government forces in Afghanistan after the invasion of the country deliberately ignored bacha bazi.[13] The U.S. military justified this by claiming the abuse was largely the responsibility of the "local Afghan government."[14]


            And though there are some Eurasian countries that appear to be "neutral," there are very few countries that actually recognize the rights of same-sex marriage
            Israel acknowledges same-sex marriages, and Tel Aviv is regarded as one of the most gay-friendly cities in the world. Don't you conservatives think Israel is the bestest ever?

            So if your point is that there are some scattered rebellious counter culture groups here and there, sure, you have that in every culture, especially expected in an age influenced by information technology like ours.
            Various positive attitudes to homosexuality within middle eastern regions are hundreds, perhaps thousands of years old, and far predate any Western influence. In most cases, anti-gay laws passed recently in the region have been an anti-Western reaction.
            Last edited by Starlight; 02-08-2020, 07:18 PM.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post
              The only Democrat I would even consider voting for is Gabbard. I think the rest are lunatics.
              Ok. Then why is it relevant that you wouldn't vote for Pete?
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Nope, if Trump was openly making out or carrying on with a mistress I would have a problem. If Buttigieg ended his relationship or at least went back into the closet I would have less of a problem with him.

                I worked on a book with a guy back in the 90s for about six years. I slowly got the sense that he was gay because of certain subjects he would avoid (girlfriend, past girlfriends, or anything along those lines). I knew just about everything else about this guy. So out of curiosity, I point-blank asked him one day if he was gay. His answer was yes, but he didn't like to advertise it. He mentioned a couple more times later since the cat was out of the bag. I thought that was fine. I was married and I never talked about my marriage to him, about our relationship or our honeymoon, or showed him pictures of us hugging or anything. We're both private that way. Worked out well.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                  Those aren't optics. I don't see photos of "thrice married" and "serial adultery" (assuming the latter is even true).
                  Yes because 'optics' only refers to things you can literally see, not how something "looks."

                  If you don't know Trump is a serial adulterer then I'm not sure what to say. It's not like it's a secret. Or that he's a rapist, for that matter.


                  How come liberals couldn't care less about adultery when Bill Clinton was running the show? Now it's suddenly a show-stopper?
                  I cared then and I care now. Search my post history if you don't believe me.
                  Last edited by DivineOb; 02-08-2020, 11:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                    Yes because 'optics' only refers to things you can literally see, not how something "looks."

                    If you don't know Trump is a serial adulterer then I'm not sure what to say. It's not like it's a secret. Or that he's a rapist, for that matter.

                    I cared then and I care now. Search my post history if you don't believe me.
                    So you care about adultery but not homosexuality? Why?
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                      Yes because 'optics' only refers to things you can literally see, not how something "looks."

                      If you don't know Trump is a serial adulterer then I'm not sure what to say. It's not like it's a secret. Or that he's a rapist, for that matter.
                      Since I don't have access to his bedroom, I don't know that it is true. I know the Russia collusion and hooker "pee tape" accusations were untrue.

                      I cared then and I care now. Search my post history if you don't believe me.
                      If you say so. I admire consistency

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Ok. Then why is it relevant that you wouldn't vote for Pete?
                        It's a premise. Even if he had a different platform I couldn't vote for him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          So you care about adultery but not homosexuality? Why?
                          Fair question.

                          If someone is an admitted homosexual and in a committed relationship with a same sex partner then it's up to them to sell that to the voters. If they succeed (we aren't there as a country) then I'm ok with it.

                          I actually have something of an issue with closeted homosexuality because that's something which could be used to blackmail a politician or leak out at a bad time to harm the political environment. Also it's something the voters didn't get to weigh in on.

                          If a president was in some sort of "open" marriage and could sell that to the voters I guess I'd be with it.

                          If a president is having secret affairs then that's something the voters didn't weigh in on and it is something which could leak to embarass the president or be used for blackmail.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            Since I don't have access to his bedroom, I don't know that it is true.
                            He paid off Stormy Daniels. That's proof that he had an affair with her.

                            I know the Russia collusion and hooker "pee tape" accusations were untrue.
                            You don't have proof of either of these claims. If so, share with the class.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                              He paid off Stormy Daniels. That's proof that he had an affair with her.
                              A payoff proves she accused him of adultery and it would make him look bad if that got out. It's probably true, but you said serial adulterer.

                              You don't have proof of either of these claims. If so, share with the class.
                              The onus of "proof" is with the accusers. No evidence, just claims coming from a paid foreign agent. Where's the "pee tape"? Where is the evidence of collusion? If there was any actual evidence (instead of Democratic weasel words) Trump would have been impeached based on it. Nothing. Just a Ukraine phone call impeachment that was stillborn.

                              But this is getting pretty far away from the optics of a man kissing a man going down in Muslim nations.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                86234134_3069959063023486_8917952029058400256_o.jpg
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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