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  • #91
    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
    You asked.



    There are valid reasons to diminish the honor of Obama's peace prize, beginning with the fact he himself said he hadn't earned it. But he accepted the prize in the spirit in which it was offered, aspirationally. Nobel Peace Prizes aren't just offered to those who make peace, like Jimmy Carter. They are also offered to those who make way for peace, like Yitzhak Rabin.
    I am not diminishing the prize. In fact, if Obama received the prize primarily because he was the first black US president, then he has full definitive claim to it. If it is diminished at all it is because it was bestowed for "not being Bush", which nearly the entire planet can claim. But aside from all the "nod-nod-wink-wink" asides, he did receive it for being the first black US president. Otherwise he should return it.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34277960

    Or for turning away from a posture of war.

    Mikhail Gorbachev received a peace prize for not being "My vas pokhoronim!" Barack Obama received his for not being "You're either with us, or against us." The obvious rationale for Obama's prize was a turn away from the "adventurist" wars of his predecessor, that being how the Germans termed them when they refused to lend support. Bush didn't start the fight in Afghanistan, and I won't blame him for that. He did start the fight in Iraq, though, and he based it on ever changing justifications, including a constant, risible linkage to 9/11.

    There were no WMDs beyond a few rotting remnants that couldn't even be excavated safely let alone be classed as ordnance.

    And he threatened to take the fight across the middle east until the facts on the ground showed how a slimmed down army couldn't hold Iraq, let alone expand the conquest into Iran, or Syria, or wherever else he might want to take it. His policy had exactly the consequences detailed by his father as reasons why he chose to leave Saddam in place.

    The Bush Doctrine included pre-emptive war as one of its three key pillars.

    The entire world heaved a collective sigh of relief when Bush the Lesser left office. The Nobel committee gave his successor a peace prize. The connection was obvious. Obama's race had nothing more to do with it than his species. If elected, Mickey Mouse would have won a nod from the Nobel committee.

    And yet, here you are, saying "They gave him a Peace Prize for doing nothing more than being black."

    And getting called out for the bigotry.

    And not understanding why.
    I understand why. It's a convenient label.

    That's a possibility, but not relevant here. In this case, I extended your admission of bigotry in the thread title, carefully avoiding any more onerous label. In response, you replaced your own label, bigotry, with a worse one, in order to use it as a rationale for dismissing criticism.
    That title was tongue-in-cheek. I am a Libertarian and I fully support every right extended to homosexuals that every American enjoys - but that doesn't mean I support one as president - because of the optics. It's called discernment, and employers use it all the time. Those on the left may deny they use it, but we all know better. It is human nature.

    I went searching for anyone making the argument Obama received the Nobel for being black. I found one reference in an over-the-top youtube video, and a man-on-the-street interview snippet inside a Reuters write-up.
    Hospital worker Itya Silverio, 33, of Brooklyn, said: “My first opinion is that he got it because he’s black. What did he do that was so great? He hasn’t even finished office yet.”

    That's not an argument, not even a statement, just an opinion. And, it's an opinion crying out for an argument if we're to take it seriously.
    Well, if Google doesn't support my assertion then I must be wrong. Google is never wrong. I mean, it's not like they use filters or anything.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Why do you hate Jews, JimL?
      I don't, I hate corrupt leaders like Putin, Trump and Netanyahu.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Doesn't mean that homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic of ones nature.
        Sure, there is evidence that the desire to rape is a biological characteristic - so?
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Sure, there is evidence that the desire to rape is a biological characteristic - so?
          nonsense.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            I don't, I hate corrupt leaders like Putin, Trump and Netanyahu.
            So you hate our President, foreigners AND Jews?

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              So you hate our President, foreigners AND Jews?
              NO troll, I hate corrupt leaders like Putin, Trump and Netanyahu.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                nonsense.
                Exactly what is nonsense?

                Male Sexual Aggression: What Chimps Can Reveal About People

                Male chimpanzees that wage a campaign of sustained aggression against females sire more offspring than their less violent counterparts, new research finds.

                The results suggest that such nasty behavior from males evolved because it gave the meanest males a reproductive advantage, said study co-author Ian Gilby, a primatologist at Arizona State University in Phoenix.

                This chimpanzee behavior could also provide some insight into the roots of sexual aggression in men.

                "It is possible that in our early ancestors there may have been an adaptive value to male aggression against females," Gilby said.

                https://www.livescience.com/48743-ag...duce-more.html

                http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/rese...ryintothe.html

                Among scientists at the university of New Mexico that spring, rape was in the air. One of the professors, biologist Randy Thornhill, had just coauthored A Natural History of Rape: Biological Bases of Sexual Coercion, which argued that rape is (in the vernacular of evolutionary biology) an adaptation, a trait encoded by genes that confers an advantage on anyone who possesses them. Back in the late Pleistocene epoch 100,000 years ago, the 2000 book contended, men who carried rape genes had a reproductive and evolutionary edge over men who did not: they sired children not only with willing mates, but also with unwilling ones, allowing them to leave more offspring (also carrying rape genes) who were similarly more likely to survive and reproduce, unto the nth generation. That would be us. And that is why we carry rape genes today. The family trees of prehistoric men lacking rape genes petered out.

                https://www.newsweek.com/can-we-blam...ge-genes-80349
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  NO troll, I hate corrupt leaders like Putin, Trump and Netanyahu.
                  Why?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    IIRC the Nobel Peace Prize committee made it very clear that they weren't awarding Obama the Peace Prize for what they thought he could accomplish but instead for what he already had done. This of course led people to ask just what was it that he did, which naturally led to the sound of


                    cricket.gif

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      This of course led people to ask just what was it that he did...
                      He could elegantly sling BS?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        He could elegantly sling BS?
                        Maybe they actually believed his claim that the earth itself was responding to his nomination. You know, the "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal" claim.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          IIRC the Nobel Peace Prize committee made it very clear that they weren't awarding Obama the Peace Prize for what they thought he could accomplish but instead for what he already had done. This of course led people to ask just what was it that he did, which naturally led to the sound of
                          Well, yeah. What he had already done was become the first black US president. They got all goose-pimply over that, and they couldn't even wait until he'd been in office for a year to see what he would actually do first.

                          Of course, leftist/progressives here will argue that it was something else: "It's because he wasn't Bush. It's because he was laying a foundation for peace. It's because he wore nice, trendy suits." But we all know better.

                          Now, if you were to say "Obama navigated the hostile waters of American prejudice and systemic racism, and overcame them to become the first ever minority President of the United States", they'll say "Well, OK then." But if you simply say "He got the prize because he's black" then it becomes "Racist! Racist! Blah blah blah!" So because it's such a touchy subject and can be problematic in the wording, they'd rather just pin it on him for something completely different and then do the nod-nod-wink-wink schtick.

                          But no matter how many times they say it, it just isn't true. Just like Xi saying he rules over the "Democratic" Republic of China. He can say it all he wants but the rest of us know better.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            Well, yeah. What he had already done was become the first black US president. They got all goose-pimply over that, and they couldn't even wait until he'd been in office for a year to see what he would actually do first.

                            Of course, leftist/progressives here will argue that it was something else: "It's because he wasn't Bush. It's because he was laying a foundation for peace. It's because he wore nice, trendy suits." But we all know better.

                            Now, if you were to say "Obama navigated the hostile waters of American prejudice and systemic racism, and overcame them to become the first ever minority President of the United States", they'll say "Well, OK then." But if you simply say "He got the prize because he's black" then it becomes "Racist! Racist! Blah blah blah!" So because it's such a touchy subject and can be problematic in the wording, they'd rather just pin it on him for something completely different and then do the nod-nod-wink-wink schtick.
                            A lot of the reason appears to have been the simple fact that he wasn't Bush.

                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            But no matter how many times they say it, it just isn't true. Just like Xi saying he rules over the "Democratic" Republic of China. He can say it all he wants but the rest of us know better.
                            IIRC Bloomberg was talking about how Xi has to answer to his "constituency." Apparently he has no idea that communist dictators aren't actually elected.
                            Last edited by rogue06; 02-17-2020, 02:00 PM.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Maybe they actually believed his claim that the earth itself was responding to his nomination. You know, the "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal" claim.
                              The ONE
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                A lot of the reason appears to have been the simple fact that he wasn't Bush.
                                Again, that's their claim, which makes no sense. Odds are that anyone who took office after Bush retired would not be Bush.

                                But if they actually convinced themselves that that's really why they were awarding him the prize, then they are bigger fools than I thought.

                                IIRC Bloomberg was talking about how Xi has to answer to his "constituency." Apparently he has no idea that communist dictators aren't actually elected.
                                And he wants to be president.

                                I remember when GWBush first took office and claimed that Mexico was our "closest" ally. Tony Blair was visibly rattled. I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt and assumed he meant geographically.

                                Comment

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