Originally posted by seer
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Ronson View Post
I remember when GWBush first took office and claimed that Mexico was our "closest" ally. Tony Blair was visibly rattled. I gave Bush the benefit of the doubt and assumed he meant geographically.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by seer View PostExactly what is nonsense?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou need to read the whole article seer, not just post the part of it that suits your argument. For one thing evolutionary psychology with respect to genetics and rape is just an hypothesis, for another it's an hypothesis with no evidence to support it and much that undermines it. Read the whole article!Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostHe peppered his speeches with admonishments of past American policy. And even though I happen to agree with him on those points, it's not something to vocalize.
So why do you think allies loved Obama? What's your take as a New Zealander? Because he didn't start wars like Bush?
1. Obama was clearly intelligent. Whereas Bush was clearly stupid (and evil, especially when directed by Cheney, e.g. invasion of Iraq, torture program etc).
2. Obama was a good speaker. And he said nice things in his speeches that people liked.
3. Obama was charismatic, presidential, dignified and thoughtful. He seemed to effortlessly combine casualness and humor with dignity and the gravity of the office he held. Simply by virtue of being such a presidential person, he regained a huge level of international respect for America, and the office of its president.
4. Obama's international politics was on the whole perceived to be positive and constructive - he touted himself as a peacemaker and a diplomat who would work to build international relationships and international consensuses (as opposed to Bush's policies that were perceived to be destructive - invading random countries and destabilizing the middle east and going-it-alone, especially to the extent they were perceived as being puppet-mastered by Darth Cheney who was widely perceived as the incarnation of evil and the mastermind behind the incompetent bumbling lout).
5. There was widespread confidence that Obama wouldn't go invading random countries at the drop of a hat, unlike Bush/Cheney.
6. Obama was Black, and this impressed a lot of people with regard to it being a historic first for the US and representing civil rights progress. As much of the Western world continued to discuss civil rights in the context of race, sexuality, and gender, it was viewed as fitting that the 'leader of the free world' be of a minority identity.
7. Insofar as people here paid attention to Obama's domestic polices they typically strongly agreed with and supported them. (As you may know, Americans tend to label Europe as 'socialist', implicitly acknowledging that US domestic policy tends to be quite far to the right of where the European center is. NZ is similar to Europe in that regard, and Obama's domestic polices were far closer to what almost everyone here would regard as normal, than Bush's were)
8. Obama got on well with other international leaders. NZ's leader at the time seemed to be genuinely good friends with Obama and would happily play golf with him and chat with him.
Him being black was definitely a reason lots of people in allied countries did like him. My (white) father got and enjoyed a t-shirt with pictures of MLK Jr and Obama and words saying "I have a dream" and "I am the dream". So unlike with your "that's why he got a Nobel prize" conspiracy, that reason does actually apply here.
On the other hand, your "he paid allies $$$" conspiracy, doesn't apply at all. Where's my check? Where's my country's check? Nowhere. AFAIK Obama didn't pay a single cent to any Western allies ever (not counting Israel as Western). Would paying money to allies cause people in them like you anyway? It would be pretty weird. People who don't need money (e.g. the reasonably affluent Western countries) would probably find it somewhat offensive if the US tried to offer them money, and almost certainly wouldn't take it if they thought anything at all would be expected in return.
Obama pursued similarly violent policies.
Trump massively increased the US's already extremely-high use of drone strikes,
https://worldbeyondwar.org/u-s-drone...p-took-office/
Then he substantially reduced the data that the government was releasing about drone strikes, making it difficult to track the deaths they were causing:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell where is your evidence that homosexuality is genetic?
1. Genetic, which can be assessed by checking whether lots and lots of pairs of identical twins are or aren't both homosexual, and comparing this to how often non-identical twins are homosexual. The difference in rates tells us that genetics explains about 33% of the variance. You could handwavingly say that 1 in 3 people who are gay are that way due to their genetics.
2. Hormonal in the womb, where the mother develops antibodies over time to the male hormones in the fetus and these suppress male hormones in the developing fetus, feminizing it somewhat. This effect gets stronger with each male birth a women has and makes each son 33% more likely to be gay than the previous one. This effect accounts for about 20% of gay males.
Of course, that still leaves the majority of the effect unexplained, and scientists as yet have no proven theories with regard to the majority-cause of same-sex attractions.
However, pretty much all humans both straight and gay, report that their attractions seem to be innate rather than voluntary. No person goes around choosing who they are and aren't attracted to, rather they simply are attracted to some people and not others. Whatever the underlying biological causes (genetics, hormones, brain development, pheromones etc), attractions appear to be innate. Nor has anyone been able to produce a method for reliably changing which sex a person is attracted to. In that sense, a person with same-sex attractions seems to be essentially born with it and can no more change it than they can change the color of their skin.
Obviously, gay people (ie same-sex attracted people), like anyone else, can control their behavior, and act, or not, on desires. Homosexual behavior is obviously voluntary even if homosexual attraction (aka homosexuality) isn't."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI'm not sure either of you quite knows what you're arguing for at this point, but I'll but in and point out that scientific evidence points to two known causes of homosexual inclinations:
1. Genetic, which can be assessed by checking whether lots and lots of pairs of identical twins are or aren't both homosexual, and comparing this to how often non-identical twins are homosexual. The difference in rates tells us that genetics explains about 33% of the variance. You could handwavingly say that 1 in 3 people who are gay are that way due to their genetics.
2. Hormonal in the womb, where the mother develops antibodies over time to the male hormones in the fetus and these suppress male hormones in the developing fetus, feminizing it somewhat. This effect gets stronger with each male birth a women has and makes each son 33% more likely to be gay than the previous one. This effect accounts for about 20% of gay males.
Of course, that still leaves the majority of the effect unexplained, and scientists as yet have no proven theories with regard to the majority-cause of same-sex attractions.
However, pretty much all humans both straight and gay, report that their attractions seem to be innate rather than voluntary. No person goes around choosing who they are and aren't attracted to, rather they simply are attracted to some people and not others. Whatever the underlying biological causes (genetics, hormones, brain development, pheromones etc), attractions appear to be innate. Nor has anyone been able to produce a method for reliably changing which sex a person is attracted to. In that sense, a person with same-sex attractions seems to be essentially born with it and can no more change it than they can change the color of their skin.
Obviously, gay people (ie same-sex attracted people), like anyone else, can control their behavior, and act, or not, on desires. Homosexual behavior is obviously voluntary even if homosexual attraction (aka homosexuality) isn't.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JuvenalSo yeah, it seems you are a bigot, and apparently a bigot with your own reality.
I live for unwitting irony.
Originally posted by JuvenalI'm assuming you haven't left the Appalachians yet, so all these tales from foreign lands must sound like fantasy. My condolences, and sympathies.
...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostIt's helpful if you're trying to convince someone who previously didn't like your country that things are changing, and that they'll be able to work with the new administration.
It is bad policy to apologize. There are all sorts of things a true diplomat could say to repair damaged relations without taking a permissive posture. Saying "there have been issues in the past" or "moving past earlier conflicts" (etc). Apologizing simply puts power in the opposite court.
Not necessarily in order, and varied by person:
1. Obama was clearly intelligent. Whereas Bush was clearly stupid (and evil, especially when directed by Cheney, e.g. invasion of Iraq, torture program etc).
2. Obama was a good speaker. And he said nice things in his speeches that people liked.
3. Obama was charismatic, presidential, dignified and thoughtful. He seemed to effortlessly combine casualness and humor with dignity and the gravity of the office he held. Simply by virtue of being such a presidential person, he regained a huge level of international respect for America, and the office of its president.
4. Obama's international politics was on the whole perceived to be positive and constructive - he touted himself as a peacemaker and a diplomat who would work to build international relationships and international consensuses (as opposed to Bush's policies that were perceived to be destructive - invading random countries and destabilizing the middle east and going-it-alone, especially to the extent they were perceived as being puppet-mastered by Darth Cheney who was widely perceived as the incarnation of evil and the mastermind behind the incompetent bumbling lout).
5. There was widespread confidence that Obama wouldn't go invading random countries at the drop of a hat, unlike Bush/Cheney.
6. Obama was Black,
... and this impressed a lot of people with regard to it being a historic first for the US and representing civil rights progress. As much of the Western world continued to discuss civil rights in the context of race, sexuality, and gender, it was viewed as fitting that the 'leader of the free world' be of a minority identity.
7. Insofar as people here paid attention to Obama's domestic polices they typically strongly agreed with and supported them. (As you may know, Americans tend to label Europe as 'socialist', implicitly acknowledging that US domestic policy tends to be quite far to the right of where the European center is. NZ is similar to Europe in that regard, and Obama's domestic polices were far closer to what almost everyone here would regard as normal, than Bush's were)
8. Obama got on well with other international leaders. NZ's leader at the time seemed to be genuinely good friends with Obama and would happily play golf with him and chat with him.
Him being black was definitely a reason lots of people in allied countries did like him. My (white) father got and enjoyed a t-shirt with pictures of MLK Jr and Obama and words saying "I have a dream" and "I am the dream". So unlike with your "that's why he got a Nobel prize" conspiracy, that reason does actually apply here.
On the other hand, your "he paid allies $$$" conspiracy, doesn't apply at all. Where's my check? Where's my country's check? Nowhere. AFAIK Obama didn't pay a single cent to any Western allies ever (not counting Israel as Western). Would paying money to allies cause people in them like you anyway? It would be pretty weird. People who don't need money (e.g. the reasonably affluent Western countries) would probably find it somewhat offensive if the US tried to offer them money, and almost certainly wouldn't take it if they thought anything at all would be expected in return.
I will be the first to say that Obama didn't live up to the hype. I've written endless criticisms of Obama and his actions (eg here). He was 10x better than Bush, sure, but his actions sure didn't live up to his rhetoric or his values.
Initially Trump massively ramped up the rate of drone strikes:
https://worldbeyondwar.org/u-s-drone...p-took-office/
Then he substantially reduced the data that the government was releasing about drone strikes, making it difficult to track the deaths they were causing:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight and as I posted to Jim there is a lot of research showing the genetic, evolutionary connection to the desire to rape. And as you rightly say homosexual behavior is voluntary, unlike being black which is not voluntary. Skin color is not behavioral. Which is the comparison that Jim L was making.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostBeing a choice, if it is a choice, doesn't make the choice wrong or evil.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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