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Thread: I'm A Bigot

  1. #81
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Sure, but your underlying point was false.

    Try reading the link you gave to Juvenal, and laughing at it. It's pretty hilarious to class the comments there as any sort of apology:
    They whine about single sentences in Obama's speeches, not his overall points. And the sentences they whine about are run-of-the-mill statements, not grovelling apologies of any kind.

    e.g. they cite "We have not been perfect." from a speech to Muslims as if that sentence were some sort of grovelling apology.
    He peppered his speeches with admonishments of past American policy. And even though I happen to agree with him on those points, it's not something to vocalize. Just like, I happen to think Islam is a barbaric religion, but I wouldn't vocalize that as president, and I wouldn't go around admonishing past policies. Better left alone and unsaid.

    And that's about the closest the quotes get to any sort of apology of any kind. Most of their 'top 10 apologies' list is just weird and not remotely close to apologies of any kind - eg they cite the sentence "at times we sought to dictate our terms." as proof Obama apologized to the nations of the Americas, which is just weird.

    From those links you should be able to see that your previous statement of "Of course allies loved Obama. He basically was giving away US tax dollars wherever he could." was absolutely false. The vast vast majority of US aid goes to 3rd world African nations, not US allies (except Israel). Obama did not make any significant changes to which countries were receiving US aid. He did not suddenly start cutting checks to US allies to make them like him.
    Well, OK. So why do you think allies loved Obama? What's your take as a New Zealander? Because he didn't start wars like Bush? Obama pursued similarly violent policies. Because Obama feared Russia like Europeans do? Maybe. What else?

    Trump hasn't started two multi-decade wars like Bush did, for which I congratulate him. Unfortunately Trump massively increased the US's already extremely-high use of drone strikes, which mainly kill innocent civilians.
    Do you have a link on that?

  2. #82
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    And how do you know that homosexuality isn't an immutable characteristic?
    One can refrain from homosexual behavior even if he is gay, one can not refrain from being black.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqgC1tqifV8

  3. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  4. #83
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    One can refrain from homosexual behavior even if he is gay, one can not refrain from being black.
    Well... Michael Jackson...
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  5. #84
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    I live for unwitting irony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Let me know when you locate any.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Nitpicking is a losing strategy.
    You asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    That's all you can come up with? It doesn't even come close to answering my question.
    There are valid reasons to diminish the honor of Obama's peace prize, beginning with the fact he himself said he hadn't earned it. But he accepted the prize in the spirit in which it was offered, aspirationally. Nobel Peace Prizes aren't just offered to those who make peace, like Jimmy Carter. They are also offered to those who make way for peace, like Yitzhak Rabin.

    Or for turning away from a posture of war.

    Mikhail Gorbachev received a peace prize for not being "My vas pokhoronim!" Barack Obama received his for not being "You're either with us, or against us." The obvious rationale for Obama's prize was a turn away from the "adventurist" wars of his predecessor, that being how the Germans termed them when they refused to lend support. Bush didn't start the fight in Afghanistan, and I won't blame him for that. He did start the fight in Iraq, though, and he based it on ever changing justifications, including a constant, risible linkage to 9/11.

    There were no WMDs beyond a few rotting remnants that couldn't even be excavated safely let alone be classed as ordnance.

    And he threatened to take the fight across the middle east until the facts on the ground showed how a slimmed down army couldn't hold Iraq, let alone expand the conquest into Iran, or Syria, or wherever else he might want to take it. His policy had exactly the consequences detailed by his father as reasons why he chose to leave Saddam in place.

    The Bush Doctrine included pre-emptive war as one of its three key pillars.

    The entire world heaved a collective sigh of relief when Bush the Lesser left office. The Nobel committee gave his successor a peace prize. The connection was obvious. Obama's race had nothing more to do with it than his species. If elected, Mickey Mouse would have won a nod from the Nobel committee.

    And yet, here you are, saying "They gave him a Peace Prize for doing nothing more than being black."

    And getting called out for the bigotry.

    And not understanding why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Let me know when you locate any.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Sheltered life.
    You asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Assuming there is such a thing as a "race card card", it might be defined as an attempt to force the original accuser to back up his accusation.
    That's a possibility, but not relevant here. In this case, I extended your admission of bigotry in the thread title, carefully avoiding any more onerous label. In response, you replaced your own label, bigotry, with a worse one, in order to use it as a rationale for dismissing criticism.

    Call that what you wish.

    It's a race card card.

    You haven't done so.
    I went searching for anyone making the argument Obama received the Nobel for being black. I found one reference in an over-the-top youtube video, and a man-on-the-street interview snippet inside a Reuters write-up.

    Hospital worker Itya Silverio, 33, of Brooklyn, said: “My first opinion is that he got it because he’s black. What did he do that was so great? He hasn’t even finished office yet.”

    That's not an argument, not even a statement, just an opinion. And, it's an opinion crying out for an argument if we're to take it seriously.

    You haven't done so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Progressives/leftists like to shut people down with negative labels, because they have difficulty defending their position.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    Let me know when you locate any.
    You asked.

  6. #85
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    ...

    I'm assuming you haven't left the Appalachians yet, so all these tales from foreign lands must sound like fantasy. My condolences, and sympathies.
    IIRC, Ronson lived in England for a while. Not sure why that's stuck in my head.

    I OTOH have never left Pennsyltucky for more than a few days at a time. I've been as far south as Virginia Tech, and as far north as the Canadian side of Niagara Falls. I have cousins who are avid travelers and love going to Europe. Nothing they ever reported about their travels ever appealed to me.

    Singling out someone's race to demean them is racist.
    If that's how you interpreted what Ronson did, please mark me as a proud racist and send me a nice, cold gallon of milk.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  7. Amen Ronson amen'd this post.
  8. #86
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronson View Post
    He peppered his speeches with admonishments of past American policy. And even though I happen to agree with him on those points, it's not something to vocalize. Just like, I happen to think Islam is a barbaric religion, but I wouldn't vocalize that as president, and I wouldn't go around admonishing past policies. Better left alone and unsaid.
    This is where I think Christianity and the US national interest most clearly diverge. It is in the Christian's interest to be honest about other worldviews; it is in the US national interest not to cause geopolitical offense. Islam critic Robert Spencer suggests that the US government should promote moderate Islam abroad. You see where the Christian might take issue with doing this.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  9. #87
    tWebber Ronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    IIRC, Ronson lived in England for a while. Not sure why that's stuck in my head.
    And Wales. It was for book research.

    I OTOH have never left Pennsyltucky for more than a few days at a time. I've been as far south as Virginia Tech, and as far north as the Canadian side of Niagara Falls. I have cousins who are avid travelers and love going to Europe. Nothing they ever reported about their travels ever appealed to me.
    I have no interest in returning to Europe either. I am quite content with the US.

    If that's how you interpreted what Ronson did, please mark me as a proud racist and send me a nice, cold gallon of milk.
    Exactly. Thank you. My claiming Obama received his prize for being black is demeaning? Saying he got it for "not being Bush" is far more demeaning, IMO. That's like saying "Take this trophy because you're not as bad as your predecessor" as opposed to "Take this trophy because you are are a milestone, you are the first black US president".

    This is what I mean about using labels to shut people down. Some on the left can't reasonably argue a point so they just throw a label at you and walk away. But Juvenal is making an attempt now so I am going to return ...
    Last edited by Ronson; 02-17-2020 at 07:24 AM.

  10. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  11. #88
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    One can refrain from homosexual behavior even if he is gay, one can not refrain from being black.
    Doesn't mean that homosexuality is not an immutable characteristic of ones nature.

  12. #89
    tWebber kiwimac's Avatar
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    What a load of hooey. Good on Pete, good on is partner.
    "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

    I remember WinAce. Gone but not forgotten.

  13. Amen Starlight amen'd this post.
  14. #90
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Probably like the corrupt lying crook that he is.
    Why do you hate Jews, JimL?

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