The De-Ukrainification of the National Security Council

[myth]

How were you lured into the myth that Trump was acting as a dictator?

Myth? lol. I've studied some of the world's worst dictators, and Trump is (somewhat acting like them). Now, I'm realistic. He's not nearly as bad as major dictators, but there are some similarities.

[firstfloor]

It's always helpful, my misguided friend, to make it clear to whom you are addressing questions, so that the intended party may respond accordingly.

I was asking you. What is your interest in pedalling Russian inspired disinformation? And if you didn’t recognise it immediately, then you have been sucked in by the worst elements of the treacherous right wing media.

It seems that even the US security apparatus is not immune from Trump’s perversity. When he has captured that last bit, the struggle for democracy is over, and a new, revised history of the recent past will emerge.

[mikewhitney]

Myth? lol. I've studied some of the world's worst dictators, and Trump is (somewhat acting like them). Now, I'm realistic. He's not nearly as bad as major dictators, but there are some similarities.

so what did you find?

Let's say you had some case to make toward that, how does it even seem likely that he could inspire the whole of DC and the anti-Trump US government to succumb to such dictatorship? And what do you think is the effect of this dictatorship?

[mikewhitney]

Exactly my point. So why do you seem to be supporting author whom apparently doesn't understand the distinction, or that there are limits? You can disagree with Vindman's decision all day long, but like Mitt Romney he followed his moral compass and made an unpopular decision.

You are appealed with the flawed nutcase-Romney argument. Your trust in Romney makes your other opinions suspicious.

[Cow Poke]

More than one has been relieved of their command like this famous instance

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In much more current example (and one also because the officer in charge had said things about the president which angered the latter) there is Obama's firing of General Stanley McChrystal, the commander of our forces in Afghanistan, because of some unflatoring things he said to a reporter from Rolling Stone magazine about Obama

But.... ORANGE MAN!!!!!

[Cow Poke]

I was asking you.

Ah, that's why we have the quote function, and "Reply with Quote".

What is your interest in pedalling Russian inspired disinformation?

Zero.

And if you didn’t recognise it immediately, then you have been sucked in by the worst elements of the treacherous right wing media.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

It seems that even the US security apparatus is not immune from Trump’s perversity.

The "US Security apparatus", like the FBI, has become more and more politicized, and much less independent. (Add the IRS to that list, as well)

When he has captured that last bit, the struggle for democracy is over, and a new, revised history of the recent past will emerge.

You're hoping, perhaps, Mayor Pete will salvage the resulting collapse?

[firstfloor]

Ah, that's why we have the quote function, and "Reply with Quote".

The "US Security apparatus", like the FBI, has become more and more politicized, and much less independent. (Add the IRS to that list, as well)
You're hoping, perhaps, Mayor Pete will salvage the resulting collapse?

As long as it's not Trump, recovery will be speedy.
But I'm not sure how Chasten would manage the 'First Lady' role. Is there a protocol or something being planned for that contingency?

[Cow Poke]

As long as it's not Trump, recovery will be speedy.
But I'm not sure how Chasten would manage the 'First Lady' role. Is there a protocol or something being planned for that contingency?

There won't be any need to worry about that.

[Mountain Man]

If Vindman decided to lie to show some loyalty to his boss, I wonder if he would be a hero to some!

He did, and he is. Biden even encouraged the audience to give the traitor a standing ovation at the recent Democrat primary debate, so clearly his lies have made him a hero to the left.

[firstfloor]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ment-timeline/
Read from Jan 11, 2017.

[Cow Poke]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ment-timeline/
Read from Jan 11, 2017.

My dear misguided liberal friend, I really don't want you to get in trouble, so let me try one more time to give you guidance on "argument by weblink".

Debates (points for your position) made via weblink are not allowed. Weblinks may be used when a substantive summary of the point being made is posted on the board with a link given for further information regarding your position. Remember responsive arguments are to be as personal as possible, not "cut and paste" dueling articles. This can be avoided by giving one's personal analysis along with an article, or just quoting the specifically relevant portions and showing relevance.

You can't just post a link that says "podcast by Joe Blitzenberger". You really need to give some indication of what it's about, or what it's intended to prove...

The exception, of course, would be when somebody challenges you to provide a link (often by asking "linky?"), then it's appropriate to provide just the link, without comment.

[JimL]

The De-Ukrainification of the National Security Council

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Firing Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, a Ukraine expert at the National Security Council, and his twin brother Yevgeny, an NSC lawyer, is just the start of a promised restructuring and a rebuilding of the National Security Council.

Last September, National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien pledged to drastically downsize what he called the “bloated” NSC staff, so it is encouraging to see that some of that “bloat” was just escorted out of the White House on Friday. The swelling of the NSC ranks was real and Obama was to blame. During the George W. Bush administration, there were 100 policy professionals working in the NSC under Condoleezza Rice — but, the number ballooned to 236 under President Obama.

President Trump should have demanded that the NSC be streamlined in 2016, but he has been poorly served by the Council and was undermined by a few too many Vindmans. OÂ’BrienÂ’s goal is to bring the NSC down to fewer than 120 policy staffers. However, his real goal should be to retain only those whose first priorities are to truly serve the president. Lt Col. Alexander Vindman is not one of those.

Like several of those testifying at the impeachment hearings against Trump, Vindman’s allegiance to Ukraine was clear. During the preliminary televised hearings, Vindman claimed that in the spring of 2019 he became aware of what he called “outside influencers” promoting what he called a false narrative of Ukraine inconsistent with what he believed were “the consensus views of the interagency.” He stated that he believed that what he called a “false” narrative which suggested that Ukrainian government officials attempted to derail Trump’s candidacy in 2016 was “harmful to U.S. government policy… and undermined U.S. government efforts to expand cooperation with Ukraine.”

In his testimony against the President, Vindman made the statement that “a strong and independent Ukraine is critical to U.S. national security interests because Ukraine is a frontline state and a bulwark against Russian aggression.” And he was hostile to anyone who did not agree.

This ignored the fact that even Politico reported in January 2017 that Ukrainian officials tried to undermine Trump in the 2016 election by publicly disseminating documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggesting that they were investigating the matter....

Wow, turning to radical right wing British periodicals now eh, CP. Do you just soak this stuff up like a sponge or do you actually think for yourself? Btw, it isn't Vindman's job to serve the president, his job was to serve the country, to uphold the Constitution at the Presidents pleasure. The President was just unjustly aquitted and then he goes and breaks the law again by retaliating against a whistleblower for acting in accordance with the principle that his position demanded. The President now knows that he can "do whatever he wants" because he can trust in his corrupt republican Senate, and his ignorant constituency, not to do anything about it.

[Cow Poke]

Wow....

Your post is so full of bull it's not worth dissecting. I mean ---- it's like you're trying to play the part of an ultra-loony leftist to make them look bad.

[NorrinRadd]

Funny, and here I thought the point of serving on the National Security Council staff would be to serve the nation. I'd expect nothing less than these petty shenanigans from Trump.

This cult of personal loyalty to Trump is troubling in the extreme.

It is part of the Executive branch. The POTUS *is* the Executive branch. The job of the NSC is to support the *President's* national security and foreign policy goals, or else resign.

[NorrinRadd]

Exactly my point. So why do you seem to be supporting author whom apparently doesn't understand the distinction, or that there are limits? You can disagree with Vindman's decision all day long, but like Mitt Romney he followed his moral compass and made an unpopular decision. Trump doesn't seem to even have a moral compass, but so many Trump supporters seem to think we should just blindly support him no matter what.

If Vindman's conscience did not allow him to support Bad Orange Man's agenda, he should have worked to change the policy by persuasion, not subversion. If he couldn't do that, he should have resigned.

The fact of the matter is, Trump isn't smart enough to keep his corrupt shenanigans hidden. He seems incapable of understanding why people raise a stink about blatantly visible corruption.

It can't be "blatantly visible" if many of us haven't seen it.

Seriously, he has extreme political opponents (the Democrats, not me)...and he doesn't have the wherewithal to keep his wrongdoing hidden?

Some of us follow the news, and the discussions here, and have not seen this "wrongdoing."

Why is this, you ask? Because he's President, and he thinks that means he can do WHATEVER he wants. And you know what, a bunch of spineless Republican Senators (minus Mitt Romney, of all people) confirmed that he CAN do whatever he want.

Bovine scat.

I'm also not interested in hearing any B.S. about Trump supporting Christian values. Trump is pandering to the evangelical base for political expendiency. He wouldn't know an actual Christian if they punched him in the face. And besides, if the Senate would have removed Trump...there's not a single thing he's done is support of Christian values that Pence wouldn't also do.

I think Pence has better character and is a better example. But I also think he'd prove to be too much of a traditional politician, and would get rolled by the swamp.