Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Richard Rohr

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Richard Rohr

    Some members of my church including the Pastor love Richard Rohr.

    I don't know anything about him and don't know where to start finding out.

    Do any of you know what he believes or have an opinion of him and his teachings?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    A simple search brings this up.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rohr

    There's probably more out there.

    Looks like he's good with the LGBT community, which in my opinion negates anything else good he might have to say.

    I guess it depends whether you are Catholic and/or liberal at your church. If not, I would certainly question anyone in a Protestant conservative movement following him.
    Last edited by mossrose; 02-09-2020, 09:58 AM.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
      A simple search brings this up.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rohr

      There's probably more out there.

      Looks like he's good with the LGBT community, which in my opinion negates anything else good he might have to say.

      I guess it depends whether you are Catholic and/or liberal at your church. If not, I would certainly question anyone in a Protestant conservative movement following him.
      Thanks. I found this:

      https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/r...-richard-rohr/

      Clip: No Christian believer who delves into this great literature will go back to Rohr’s Universal Christ and find much of value there. The pity today—for people like Michael Gungor—is that one finds so little preaching and teaching in the churches on the truth, mystery, and majesty of Christ’s incarnation, and so little cognizance of the vast repository of wisdom contained in the Christian spiritual tradition.

      Until Christian leaders discover for themselves the riches of Scripture and the insights of holy men and women of the past, the spiritually hungry people of our time may pick up The Universal Christ at the library or bookstore, and suppose that this is a book of Christian spirituality. They’ll take home this lump of stone in place of bread. Shepherds and teachers, give heed.

      Comment


      • #4
        Here's another article about issues with Rohr.

        https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/r...-divine-dance/


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          Here's another article about issues with Rohr.

          https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/r...-divine-dance/
          Sometimes a member of my Bible Study class will emai us with the thoughts of Richard Rohr. This is the latest one:

          Richard Rohr Meditation: At-one-ment, Not Atonement

          The Franciscan view of atonement theory is a prime example of our alternative orthodoxy. The Franciscan School was dissatisfied with the popular theological idea that Jesus came to Earth as a necessary sacrifice to appease an angry God. As human consciousness advances, more and more people cannot believe that God would demand Jesus’ blood as payment for our sins. It seems to be inevitable that our old logic needs to break up before we can begin to grow up.

          The most common reading of the Bible is that Jesus “died for our sins”—either to pay a debt to the devil (generally believed in the first millennium) or to pay a debt to God (proposed by Anselm of Canterbury in the 11th century and holding sway for most of the second millennium). But even in the 13th century, Franciscan philosopher and theologian John Duns Scotus (1266–1308) agreed with neither of these understandings.

          Duns Scotus was not guided by the Temple language of debt, atonement, and blood sacrifice, which was understandably used by the Gospel writers and by Paul. Instead, he was inspired by the cosmic hymns in the first chapters of Colossians and Ephesians and the Prologue to John’s Gospel (1:1-18). While the Church has never rejected the Franciscan position, it has remained a minority view.

          The terrible and un-critiqued premise of many “substitutionary atonement theories” is that God demanded Jesus to be a blood sacrifice to “atone” for our sin-drenched humanity. As if God could need payment, and even a very violent transaction, to be able to love and accept God’s own children! These theories are based on retributive justice rather than the restorative justice that the prophets and Jesus taught.

          For Duns Scotus, the incarnation of God and the redemption of the world could never be a mere Plan B or mop-up exercise in response to human sinfulness; Jesus’ birth, life, and death had to be Plan A, the proactive work of God from the very beginning. We were “chosen in Christ before the world was made” (Ephesians 1:4). Our sin could not possibly be the motive for the incarnation! Only perfect love and divine self-revelation could inspire God to come in human form. God never merely reacts, but supremely and freely acts—out of love.

          Jesus did not come to change the mind of God about humanity. It did not need changing. Jesus came to change the mind of humanity about God! God is not someone to be afraid of but is the Ground of Being and on our side. [1]
          The Franciscan minority position, our alternative orthodoxy, is basically saying that no atonement is necessary. Some call it “at-one-ment” instead of atonement. There is no bill to be paid; there is simply a union to be named. Jesus didn’t come to solve a problem; he came to reveal the true nature of God as Love.

          What do you think about this?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
            There is no bill to be paid; there is simply a union to be named. Jesus didn’t come to solve a problem; he came to reveal the true nature of God as Love.

            What do you think about this?
            Not-so-closeted liberal theology, 'sin is not the Big Problem'. Nothing new or remarkable here.

            Atonement is central to Scripture, and anyone trying to downplay that with dumb English wordplay should be automatically suspect.
            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
              Not-so-closeted liberal theology, 'sin is not the Big Problem'. Nothing new or remarkable here.

              Atonement is central to Scripture, and anyone trying to downplay that with dumb English wordplay should be automatically suspect.
              I judged the article heresy. Wonder what these people do with this:

              Matthew 20:28 - '.. The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                I judged the article heresy.
                Yes, your pastor loves a heretic despite the obvious heresy. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
                Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                Comment


                • #9
                  He's not even Christian, if this quoting of his book is accurate.

                  I personally do not believe that Jesus came to found a separate religion as much as he came to present a universal message of vulnerability and foundational unity that is necessary for all religions, the human soul, and history itself to survive. Thus Christians can rightly call him “the Savior of the world” (John 4:42) but no longer in the competitive and imperialistic way that they have usually presented him. By very definition, vulnerability and unity do not compete or dominate. In fact, they make competition and domination impossible. The cosmic Christ is no threat to anything but separateness, illusion, domination, and any imperial ego. In that sense, Jesus, the Christ, is the ultimate threat, but first of all to Christians themselves. Only then will they have any universal and salvific message for the rest of the world” (181-82, emphases added).

                  https://www.catholic.com/qa/a-primer-on-richard-rohr
                  Prepare for the worst.
                  Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As I said in my previous post, Rohr lost me at his stance on homosexuality. Everything else he says about anything else is suspect.

                    Looks like he likes to make up new terms and ideas about salvation, which is indeed heresy.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                      He's not even Christian, if this quoting of his book is accurate.



                      Prepare for the worst.
                      I agree with this from your link:

                      Jesus Christ does indeed love all and thus died for all, but the true unity he preaches requires a choice to accept or reject him and his Church, as he preached 2,000 years ago. The Christ whom Rohr preaches is not the authentic Jesus, and his related proclamation of the gospel is not the one that that the Church has proclaimed and safeguarded for 2,000 years with the power of Holy Spirit. As a result, Rohr remains an unreliable and spiritually dangerous guide for Catholic and non-Catholic alike.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                        Yes, your pastor loves a heretic despite the obvious heresy. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
                        And the church I attend is promoting Universalism promoting Rob Bell's book "Love Wins."

                        How does a church lose its way this way?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                          And the church I attend is promoting Universalism promoting Rob Bell's book "Love Wins."

                          How does a church lose its way this way?
                          The church today, aside from a few that stay with the word of God as their final authority, is so busy trying to get butts in the pews that they have resorted to marketing themselves. And in doing so, they fall prey to heretical books and false teachers because it's easier to do talking points from somebody's book than to actually open the truth's of God from scripture.

                          We actually watched this video this morning that speaks a great deal to this issue.



                          It's very enlightening.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                            As human consciousness advances, more and more people cannot believe that God would . . .
                            That's a hard nope from me. Any time you hear a religious "authority"/thinker/leader/philosopher/whatever insert this phrase or something similar/equivalent into one of his writings/speeches/sermons it's a clear indication to stay as far away from them as possible, because they're about to peddle some unbiblical and heretical tripe. The only time hearing, or reading something like this would be ok is if it's in the context of someone quoting what someone else said, in order to refute it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                              And the church I attend is promoting Universalism promoting Rob Bell's book "Love Wins."

                              How does a church lose its way this way?
                              People want to be Nice. They don't want to talk about sin, and they don't want to say that Christ is the only Way.
                              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Thoughtful Monk, 03-15-2024, 06:19 PM
                              35 responses
                              166 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by KingsGambit, 03-15-2024, 02:12 PM
                              4 responses
                              49 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Thoughtful Monk  
                              Started by Chaotic Void, 03-08-2024, 07:36 AM
                              10 responses
                              119 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post mikewhitney  
                              Started by Cow Poke, 02-29-2024, 07:55 AM
                              14 responses
                              71 views
                              3 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Started by Cow Poke, 02-28-2024, 11:56 AM
                              13 responses
                              58 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Cow Poke  
                              Working...
                              X