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Thread: Esther, Vashti complementarianism, and teaching from the bible.

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    tWebber
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    Esther, Vashti complementarianism, and teaching from the bible.

    There is much discussion about complementarianism here. So lets look at Esther and Vashti

    Vashti was queen of Persia, who refused to submit to the male headship by coming when fetched, and was replaced by Esther, the good Queen who was the heroine of the story. She dutifully waited outside the king's chambers in an act of humble submission. And the good king of Peria sent out a decree that every man be lord in his own home.

    A biblical model for the households today? Or an utter distortion of the biblical text? Is Esther a model of purity?

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    There is much discussion about complementarianism here.
    A quick search of Tweb "posts" using the search phrase "complementarianism" by any poster for the last six months doesn't support "much discussion" on complementarianism, and a good many of those posts are you where you bring it up or argue it.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  3. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    There is much discussion about complementarianism here. So lets look at Esther and Vashti

    Vashti was queen of Persia, who refused to submit to the male headship by coming when fetched, and was replaced by Esther, the good Queen who was the heroine of the story. She dutifully waited outside the king's chambers in an act of humble submission. And the good king of Peria sent out a decree that every man be lord in his own home.

    A biblical model for the households today? Or an utter distortion of the biblical text? Is Esther a model of purity?
    Wait, who do you think lived in Persia? I thought they were pagans, not God's people. Since when do we follow Persian kings' decrees just because they are recorded in the Bible?
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

  5. Amen Cerebrum123, DesertBerean, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    Any event described in the Bible, unless explicitly condemned, should be taken as something condoned - even mandated - by God and should be used as guidance for our lives, amirite?
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  7. Amen Thespia amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Any event described in the Bible, unless explicitly condemned, should be taken as something condoned - even mandated - by God and should be used as guidance for our lives, amirite?
    I have to admit, you had me going for a minute, there!
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  9. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    A quick search of Tweb "posts" using the search phrase "complementarianism" by any poster for the last six months doesn't support "much discussion" on complementarianism, and a good many of those posts are you where you bring it up or argue it.
    Might want to check out Mossrose who always provides moving exhortations on real Christianity, for one, often including a complementarian message, if not the precise term.

    The me too thread, where it has been discussing at some length, if not deeply (ox mix tried, but did not succeed) discussed, was not started by me. Complementarianism is a frequent target of some within the church too movement, which is the religious alter ego of me too, so it does make sense that the discussion turned to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaFille View Post
    Wait, who do you think lived in Persia? I thought they were pagans, not God's people. Since when do we follow Persian kings' decrees just because they are recorded in the Bible?
    An excellent point, one which is especially pertinent for those who have made the case that the story, and that part specifically, supports a male headship view.

    Sounds like you are familiar with Rachel Held Evans, since that is a point she used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    An excellent point, one which is especially pertinent for those who have made the case that the story, and that part specifically, supports a male headship view.

    Sounds like you are familiar with Rachel Held Evans, since that is a point she used.
    I can't recall ever seeing the book of Esther used to support male headship, FWIW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Might want to check out Mossrose who always provides moving exhortations on real Christianity, for one, often including a complementarian message, if not the precise term.

    The me too thread, where it has been discussing at some length, if not deeply (ox mix tried, but did not succeed) discussed, was not started by me. Complementarianism is a frequent target of some within the church too movement, which is the religious alter ego of me too, so it does make sense that the discussion turned to that.

    Wow.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    I can't recall ever seeing the book of Esther used to support male headship, FWIW.
    Mark driscoll for one, though I wonder if the was "inspired" by the pushback, from feminist side of things, over his views on male headship and his interpretation of Esther.

    There are few places in the bible which specifically uses that phrase, maybe it is the only one, I don't know.

    One bad pig brought up a question about how do we something like that phrase for guidance, and he used an actual position of some Christians.

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