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Thread: Was MLK a bible Christian?

  1. #61
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    You just couldn't bring yourself to answer the question, could you?
    When you post like that, I'm not really sure which question you're referencing, Simp.

    Most of the fruit inspectors out there are unaware of the bible's use of fruit. There is the good fruit, then there is the bad fruit. You inspected and could only see the bad fruit, yet you claim that all are sinners, have bad fruit
    Ummmm... the Bible clearly says that ALL are sinners -- me, included. You dispute what the Bible says, Simp?

    If the SBC pastor is skilled at hiding his sins, then the fruit inspector is easily fooled!
    Yeah, sometimes that happens. Too often, in fact.

    I see MLK as the healthy tree, based on the fruit that yielded, and Letter from Birmingham Jail, combined with his role in transforming society was good fruit. I see it as a record yield, you all you find is bad fruit........
    That's a whole lot of assumin' on our part. I'm beginning to think maybe your wife kicked you out or something and you're taking it out on others.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  2. #62
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    When you post like that, I'm not really sure which question you're referencing, Simp.



    Ummmm... the Bible clearly says that ALL are sinners -- me, included. You dispute what the Bible says, Simp?



    Yeah, sometimes that happens. Too often, in fact.



    That's a whole lot of assumin' on our part. I'm beginning to think maybe your wife kicked you out or something and you're taking it out on others.
    I can only assume from what you have written here.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I can only assume from what you have written here.
    Actually, you jump to quite a few unwarranted conclusions, and I think you're often confused about who you're talking to and when --- like you did with me and Rogue.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. Amen MaxVel amen'd this post.
  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Actually, you jump to quite a few unwarranted conclusions, and I think you're often confused about who you're talking to and when --- like you did with me and Rogue.
    Well, you started with a firm conclusion, then you softened it, I incorrectly assumed that you had two changes for three positions. But even without that miattribution, you still ended up with three positions on MLK!

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Well, you started with a firm conclusion,
    Actually, it wasn't a "firm conclusion", it was a remark made in haste.

    then you softened it,
    Pretty much retracted it, yes.

    I incorrectly assumed that you had two changes for three positions. But even without that miattribution,
    Not quite sure what a miattribution is, so I don't know how to respond to that.

    you still ended up with three positions on MLK!
    So, lemme try to break it down for you....

    MLK was a sinner saved by Grace (I'm assuming, based on his published statements and works) who did some great things, and had some great failings. I have no way of knowing if he ever repented for his transgressions, but if I saw it in any of his writings, or testimony from friends or colleagues, I'd have no reason to refute it. I simply do not know.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Actually, it wasn't a "firm conclusion", it was a remark made in haste.



    Pretty much retracted it, yes.



    Not quite sure what a miattribution is, so I don't know how to respond to that.



    So, lemme try to break it down for you....

    MLK was a sinner saved by Grace (I'm assuming, based on his published statements and works) who did some great things, and had some great failings. I have no way of knowing if he ever repented for his transgressions, but if I saw it in any of his writings, or testimony from friends or colleagues, I'd have no reason to refute it. I simply do not know.
    I mis spelled the word mis attribution.

    Conclusions people draw reveal underlying assumptions, ideas held upon which other ideas are built, the analogy of a scaffold is often used. So was it a one off comment or entirely consistent with a worldview? In a thread with the title "Was MLK a bible christian" some approached it from his good fruit, others bad fruit, most some ambiguous look at the good and bad fruit.

    Pretty much retracted? A retraction which was followed by a bible verse with a clear implication that MLK was hell bound! Bible Christian is a term used often, and it hardly coincides with being hell bound.

    But "if I saw it in any of his writings"..... Have you read any of his writings? Many believers and nonbelievers consider MLK one of the great lights of the twentieth century, and so are drawn to carefully read MLK's works, which are easily accessible today.

    While here you say you have no way of knowing, how does that compare with your earlier assessment of "it seems he was an unrepentant sinner"? Since you are unfamiliar with MLK's writings, your softened conclusion of an unrepentant heart is based on either your discomfort with an SBC pastor from a different wing of the Baptist tradition, or your understanding of repentance in the life of a believer (as as a Christian pastor, no less).

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I mis spelled the word mis attribution.
    Ah

    Conclusions people draw reveal underlying assumptions, ideas held upon which other ideas are built, the analogy of a scaffold is often used. So was it a one off comment or entirely consistent with a worldview? In a thread with the title "Was MLK a bible christian" some approached it from his good fruit, others bad fruit, most some ambiguous look at the good and bad fruit.
    Cool.

    Pretty much retracted?
    Yes, OBP made a good point, which he often does.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    While here you say you have no way of knowing,
    Because, like I said, I don't know his heart - only God knows that.

    how does that compare with your earlier assessment of "it seems he was an unrepentant sinner"?
    You mean the comment that I made, and immediately modified when OBP made a good point?

    Since you are unfamiliar with MLK's writings,
    I'm unfamiliar with any of his writings where he expresses regret, sorrow, repentance or contrition for his moral failings. I thought I was pretty clear about that. If you are aware of any such reference, I'd be happy to see it. Meanwhile, like I very clearly have said -- I don't know.

    your softened conclusion of an unrepentant heart is based on either your discomfort with an SBC pastor from a different wing of the Baptist tradition,
    OR, it could simply be that I don't know!

    or your understanding of repentance in the life of a believer (as as a Christian pastor, no less).
    OR, it could simply be - like I said - that I don't know!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  10. #69
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I honestly don't mean this in an argumentative way, but I'm really beginning to think you are not very familiar with the Christian life in general.

    Maybe. I think it is also that he's looking for you to make some statement that he can later 'misapprehend' so he can attack you over it. The question is more bait to get you to commit than an attempt at gaining understanding.

    Remember, he understands the motivations and workings of the SBC and it's members (and messengers, I mean 'delegates') better than you do.


    The question is a 'debate' tactic, nothing more. To get you to expose a 'weakness' which can subsequently be attacked.
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    Maybe. I think it is also that he's looking for you to make some statement that he can later 'misapprehend' so he can attack you over it. The question is more bait to get you to commit than an attempt at gaining understanding.
    Yeah, like when I made a casual statement which I immediately modified after OBP made a good point... it's like, "NO, you SAID that.... that's what you MEANT!!!!!"

    It's like he's a subscriber to "the beatings will continue til morale improves". Or, the LAW always trumps GRACE.

    Remember, he understands the motivations and workings of the SBC and it's members (and messengers, I mean 'delegates') better than you do.
    That really has been amusing.

    The question is a 'debate' tactic, nothing more. To get you to expose a 'weakness' which can subsequently be attacked.
    And I allow it, cause it helps me to evaluate what I really think.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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