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Thread: King Trump stretches his new legs

  1. #91
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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  2. Amen Chaotic Void, demi-conservative amen'd this post.
  3. #92
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    You are not out for a good outcome CP or a positive change in my behavior - you are out for revenge.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  4. Amen Chaotic Void amen'd this post.
  5. #93
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It doesn't have to be a lack of understanding CP, it just is. And I would try to explain it to you, but, no that would not work.

    You are not out for a good outcome CP or a positive change in my behavior - you are out for revenge.
    Wrong. I'm just telling what I see, and your conduct toward your brothers in Christ has made me aware that my own conduct needs to be reigned in. Not to mention your unhealthy obsession with the Orange Man.

    And that pretty much puts the kibosh on civil conversation from line 1.
    Only if you're incapable of being a big boy and talking things out without doing things like falsely accusing me of motives like revenge.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  6. #94
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    So, when you can admit my admonishments about your behavior towards JimL influenced you, we can talk.
    I thought about this some more, Jim, and it occurred to me that the primary reason I started this thread...

    Cow Poke's Continued Reform

    ...was because of some things Jesse had said. (You can see he posted right after me in that thread)


    And, with regards to JimL, I have been a good boy since before Thanksgiving.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  7. #95
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Unfortunately declines are not relative animals. Yes, the trend has been towards more presidential power for a while. And deteriorating societal morays have led to a greater tolerance of abuses of power and moral indiscretions by those same presidents. But that doesn't mean 'It's just more of the same'. The decline has a floor, it is not a bottomless pit. And the closer you get to that floor, the more dangerous any further decline is. The Floor is the loss of any control over the president, the dissolution of the separation of powers. Trump started closer to that floor than any other preseident, has almost no respect for the ideals that created the separation of powers, and has moved us farther along that decline - in the absolute sense - more than any other president. When you put all that together, we are now precipitously close to that floor. We need to be pushing back STRONGLY, and we do not need to be naively saying 'Oh well, it's just more of the same'.

    (1) Not everything Trump has done has been negative. For example, the appointment of numerous conservative judges is something that should bring a healthier balance to American society in the medium term. So any 'pushback' against Trump has to also preserve the good things he has done. I think race relations have improved somewhat - at least the negative aspects haven't been subject to the same intense (and sometimes unbalanced) focus as before, taking some of the heat out of it.


    (2) Any pushback against Trump MUST be done in ways that preserve and promote what remains of the best of American governance. That is, if we make the end (removing Trump) justify the means then we may succeed in removing Trump, but fail in our goal of strengthening American society.

    As an example, if we allow things like impeach-before-elected based on the flimsiest of 'evidence', and ride roughshod over historical precedent and common sense jurisprudence to boot, then we have further damaged and delegitimized the mechanisms of good government. Such actions create a precedent, and 'justify' the defeated party in using them against the victors next time they win an election. What are the odds, now, of Republicans launching an impeachment attack on the next Democrat President, as a political tactic regardless of what the Democratic President has done? Higher, I would say.


    (3) If you want to pushback on Trump (or any President for that matter), then it is incumbent on you as a Christian to use only the fairest and most honest methods and motivations. Why? Because if you don't then God will certainly NOT bless your endeavours. That is why I push you to be more objective and more charitable in your assessment of Trump. That is the only way you will have any chance of convincing most posters here. Many of them have done multiple rounds with cynical, skeptical and dishonest atheists. They are not going to be swayed by emotionalism, faulty reasoning, partiality, or use of biased or poor sources. Doing so is more likely going to make them support Trump.



    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd
    I agree with all you have said here, excepting that I am very critical of Christians that echo the response of a society impacted by that same societal malaise and moral misdirection.

    This country was founded on strong ideals that themselves grew out of a strong Christian heritage. And those ideals are being disemboweled on every front by the Trump administration. And here on TWEB the cry is 'this is normal, this is ok, it's no big deal, he's just another bureaucrat'. And the reality is, no, this is no longer something we can tolerate as normal, we are too close to the floor I mention above. No this is not ok, no we cannot just sit back and pretend that since he's scratching our backs a bit that we can ignore the bigger picture of where he is taking us in terms of its affront on the most basic ideals that have served to make this nation the great nation it has been for over 250 years.

    You're going to have to accept that other Christians have a different view of things. They don't see Trump as anything like as bad as you do, and they see him doing a fair bit of positive stuff. Compared to the alternatives at the time (and it looks very much like the alternatives coming up) they see him as a choice that will at least do some things that they think important. It's possible that they see some issues (such as abortion, say) as important enough to vote on that alone, regardless of anything else.

    Say we get rid of Trump. Who is going to (a) resist the attacks of the extreme Democrats; (b) at least make some progress on reining back in unelected bureaucrats who think they should run the country how they want; (c) deal with a media that is largely very hostile to anyone 'conservative'; (d) actually get some things 'conservatives' / Republican-leaning voters want done, done; (e) have a decent chance of being elected as President?

    I don't see anyone obvious out there who can outperform Trump on all of those points right now, and maybe not for the next few years (Ted Cruz in a few years, maybe??). So who else should such voters choose?
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  8. Amen One Bad Pig, Cerebrum123, seer, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.

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