666 Before Revelation

[eschaton]

The church father Irenaeus associated the number of the beast (Rev 13:18) with the six days of creation as well as 6,000 years of Earth's history. (Against The Heresies V.XXVIII.2-3)Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of John. Of course, Irenaeus got the number from the book of Revelation. According to this church father, the number was foreshadowed by the six days of creation, the flood, and the book of Daniel. It was also a prophecy. Surprisingly, the idea for 666 was preceded by the first-century Jewish scholar Philo of Alexandria (25 BC-50 AD).

Since, therefore, the first beginning of the generation of our race, after the destruction caused by the deluge, commenced with Noah, men being again sown and procreated, therefore he also is recognised as resembling the first man born of the earth, as far as such resemblance or recognition is possible. And the six hundredth year has for its origin the number six; and the world was created under the number six, therefore, by this same number does he reprove the wicked, putting them to shame because he would, unquestionably, never, after he had created the universe by means of the number six, have destroyed all the men who lived on the earth under the form of six, if it had not been for the preposterous excess of their iniquities. For the third power of six and the minor power is the number six hundred, and the mean between both is sixty, since the number ten more evidently represents the likeness of unity, and the number a hundred represents the minor power.
Philo, Book 42: Questions and Answers on Genesis, II

[eschaton]

Actually it is in Heresies, V.XXIX.2 where Irenaeus actually gives the parallel discussion of this. I should have copied the excerpt from my book.

[Obsidian]

He doesn't specifically mention the number.

[eschaton]

Do you mean Irenaeus or Philo? Philo mentions six hundred for Noah's age, sixty as the "mean," and the six days of creation. Irenaeus also mentions Noah's age at the beginning of the flood, six days of creation, and Nebuchadnezzar's image (Dan 3:1). Daniel 3:1 doesn't state 66 or 666 but Irenaeus associates it with that number. Both are looking for symbolism in a number that adds up to 666.

[eschaton]

[rogue06]

In some of the oldest copies 616 is the number of the beast not 666

[eschaton]

In some of the oldest copies 616 is the number of the beast not 666

In the second century, Irenaeus said that was probably a copyist error. Papyrus 115 dates back to the third century and shows 616. Nicholas Humphrey thinks it is related to Plato's number, 216.

[Just Passing Through]

[eschaton]

[eschaton]

one more

Here are some similar verses from Philo:

(Q&A on Genesis I )(91)Thirdly, it is so because it consists of a combination of odd and even numbers, being contained by the power of the faculty of the concurring numbers, sixty-four and fifty-six; for the equal number of sixty-four is compounded of the uniting of these eight odd numbers, one, three, five, seven, nine, eleven, thirteen, fifteen; the reduction of which, by their parts into squares, makes a sum total of sixty-four, and that is a cube, and at the same time a square number. (4*4*4)(8*8)

(Q&A on Genesis II) (5) For the number three constantly exhibits, as belonging to itself, the first equality of all, having a beginning, and a middle, and an end, all of which are equal to one another; and eight is the first cube, because it again has declared its first equality with the rest. But the number twenty-four has likewise a great number of other virtues, since it is the substance of the number three hundred, as has been already pointed out; this then is its first virtue; and it has another, since it is compounded of twelve quadrangular figures, joined to one another by a continuous unity; and besides of two long figures, and twelve double figures, being forsooth compounded of twos separately increased by two and two.

(45)Therefore of necessity the evil ceased on the six hundred and first year of his life, since in truth the destruction came with reference to the sixth number, and safety was restored in unity since unity is more a generativeness of the soul, and is the best for giving life, wherefore also a deficiency of water in the sea takes place at the new moon, in order that the units may be preferred in dignity both among months and years, when God saves those things which are upon the earth; since the man who cultivates just habits is called by the Hebrews in their native language Noah, but by the Greeks he is named Dikaios; however, he is not exempted from the laws affecting the body. For although he is not subordinate to the power of others, but is a prince, yet still, because he is nevertheless devoted to death, as he is dead, the principle of that number six is connected with unity; since it was not in one year taken separately that the deluge ceased, but together with the number six (as contained in the number six hundred), which is connected with it according to corporeality and inequality; since the other being a long number is in the first place six (that is to say, six hundred); on which account it is said, in the six hundred and first year.

One more:

The Decalogue (28) And the unit, and the decade, and the century, and the thousand, are the four boundaries which generate the decade, which last number, besides what has been already said, displays also other differences of numbers, both the first, which is measured by the unit alone, of which an instance is found in the numbers three, or five, or seven; and the square which is the fourth power, which is an equally equal number. Also the cube, which is the eighth power, which is equally equal equally, and also the perfect number, the number six, which is made equal to its component parts, three, and two, and one.

[Just Passing Through]

[eschaton]

the cube, which is the eighth power,"

"eight is the first cube,"

It would seem that if 4 is the fourth power and 8 is the eighth power then the third power would have to be 3. If unity is one, or the number multiplied by 6 to equal 6, then adding and averaging the powers would still equal 2. Then in a series of 6*6*6 as in Plato's number the 2 could still represent the second place. The minor power is first and the third power is third.

I don't see where you fully explain augmenting or strengthening. Does hurling mean carrying? Do you have anything to back that up? I gather you understand that Philo was fully aware of adding and subtracting exponents.

My point in the first post that Philo and Irenaeus were not placing importance on a sum. Instead, they were placing importance on the individual 6's that make up the number 666. Irenaeus referred to 66 as in Daniel 3:1.

"sixty cubits high and six cubits wide" That's his explanation of the second 6.

You say:

"so 600 is the third power of 6 in that 6 has been transformed twice in some way."

Philo says:

"For the third power of six and the minor power is the number six hundred"

So he is either saying both the minor power and the third power are 600 or is it a sum? If it is transformed could that indicate 6 and 60?

I would be interested in a discussion of Philo in relation to Irenaeus.

Philo - Noah's age at the flood 600, mean(?), 6 days of creation
Irenaeus - Noah's age at the flood 600, nebuchadnezzar's image 66, 6 days of creation

You say - "There was no contextual reason to mention 60 "
Philo says - "and the mean between both is sixty"

[eschaton]

Another point I'm trying to make is that the calculation isn't simple isopsephy or gematria. The type of calculation made by Philo and Irenaeus in this instance is done with a combination of mathematics and philosphical logic of the kind Plato used. Mathematics and philosophy were part of wisdom. Philo said:

...because instead of the sublime erudition of astronomy he gave him intellect, that is to say, instead of a small part of wisdom, he gave him the whole and perfect blessing of entire wisdom, since a knowledge of things above is included and comprehended in wisdom, as a part is included in the whole; for mathematics are only a part.
Philo Q&A on Genesis III

[eschaton]

The book of Revelation says that wisdom is needed to calculate the number of the beast. Not only that, but John also speaks as though the wisdom already existed. Philo of Alexandria wrote before John wrote the book of Revelation. He gave an interpretation of the number 666. It was similar to the first Christian interpretation given by the second-century church father Irenaeus. Both pay more attention to the place of the digits rather than the number treated as a sum. Belial/Beliar is the word in the Old Testament for those worthless, lawless ones. It can be found in the New Testament by simply comparing scripture to scripture. The connection between Belial/Beliar to antichrist has long been known. What is new is how this name is calculated from 666.

I have summarized my findings in a Kindle ebook, "666 And The Name, by Alan Fuller." I hope everyone will have a chance to give it a look.

[3 Resurrections]

The comments above are making this subject waaaay more complicated than it really is. John anticipated that with just a bit of wisdom, his readers would be able to figure this calculation of 666. After all, the book of Revelation was written to SHOW the servants of God something - not to HIDE everything.

I once thought gematria was the solution. Not any more. This number of the Sea Beast was given so that John’s readers could identify the Sea Beast by calculating by the CALENDAR the actual AGE IN YEARS of the Sea Beast.

In other words, John’s readers were to count backward in time 666 YEARS PRIOR to the year they were reading Revelation as originally penned by John.

If one knows the year Revelation was written (by internal evidence anywhere between late AD 59 and early AD 60 before the AD 60 Laodicean earthquake), all one needs to do is count back those 666 years and we arrive at 607 BC, when Nebuchadnezzar deported the first group of Jews, including Daniel and his three young friends. This was the beginning of the 70 year period of exile, a date which would have burned itself into the memory of every Jew who knew even the basic history of their own nation.

We know that the Sea Beast included features of the lion, bear, and leopard empires, all subsumed into the one dreadful and horrible last beast. This means that the Sea Beasts’s biography had started as early as the first lion kingdom headed by King Nebuchadnezzar.