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Thread: How does the Holy Spirit move among Baptists?

  1. #11
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So if you claim that the resolution claiming CRT is a useful tool was inspired by the Holy Spirit, then you would have to accept the same for all of the Baptist resolutions, even the ones you don't agree with, right?

    Also, do you accept every pronouncement from the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra as infallable? Cuz you sure don't act like it.
    I don't think that the claim makes sense, I hold that the Holy Spirit, spelled in fullness, takes people where they are at, yet is still able to move, inspire

    Not sure if you've yet to answer: Do you think that the resolution was inspired by the Holt Spirit, the devil himself or by men separated from the Holy Spirit? I am arguing the first, others have taken the ambiguous stance of two and three, CP is artfully dodging it.

    Do you accept the principle that the biblical idea of "whenever two or three gather...." can also apply to an SBC annual meeting and men sitting in committee?

    I wonder if there are any women in that committe, there was at least one person of color (I wonder if that has any significance)

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I don't think that the claim makes sense, I hold that the Holy Spirit, spelled in fullness, takes people where they are at, yet is still able to move, inspire

    Not sure if you've yet to answer: Do you think that the resolution was inspired by the Holt Spirit, the devil himself or by men separated from the Holy Spirit? I am arguing the first, others have taken the ambiguous stance of two and three, CP is artfully dodging it.

    Do you accept the principle that the biblical idea of "whenever two or three gather...." can also apply to an SBC annual meeting and men sitting in committee?

    I wonder if there are any women in that committe, there was at least one person of color (I wonder if that has any significance)
    I asked you first. You are arguing that we should accept that CRT is a useful tool because the SBC issued a resolution stating it and that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    If that is the case, do you accept all of the other resolutions of the SBC as being inspired by the Holy Spirit?

    Also, do you accept every pronouncement from the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra as infallable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Not sure if you've yet to answer: Do you think that the resolution was inspired by the Holt Spirit, the devil himself or by men separated from the Holy Spirit?
    DRAT, those are our only three options?

    I am arguing the first, others have taken the ambiguous stance of two and three, CP is artfully dodging it.
    Lemme try to put it into words that even you can understand:

    When I preach or teach, I rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me.
    When I decide what I want for breakfast, no so much.

    Our Church recently had a busted water pipe due to a freeze. We did not, as a Church, meet to discuss it, nor did we consult or invoke or appeal to the Holy Spirit.
    We called a plumber.

    Now, as to Resolution 9 (I think that was the number), I do not believe the author(s) sought out the Holy Spirit's leadership on that.
    Part of my reason for this belief is that, before it was even voted on, it was edited in such a manner that it no longer represented what the author(s) intended.

    Now, did the Holy Spirit err in the drafting of the Resolution? Did he change his mind when it came to editing it? Which time was he wrong?
    The very fact that there is so much controversy over this is a pretty clear indication that it did NOT have the stamp of approval of the Holy Spirit.

    God is not the author of confusion, and the Holy Spirit is ALWAYS on the same page as God.

    Was that clear enough?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  4. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I asked you first. You are arguing that we should accept that CRT is a useful tool because the SBC issued a resolution stating it and that they are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    If that is the case, do you accept all of the other resolutions of the SBC as being inspired by the Holy Spirit?

    Also, do you accept every pronouncement from the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra as infallable?
    Do I accept the pronouncements as infallible? yes I do. Like the Bible, like ex cathedra statments, each and every one of those can be ignored. But they cannot be ignored safely.

    Do I accept all the other resolutions as divinely inspired? yes, with the stipulation above, that the spirit takes men where they are at.

    I think it a good question, and am surprised at how reluctant Baptists and Protestants are in answering. No one had a problem with the allegations on and off tweb as the SBC annual meeting as the devil's playground.

    So I thought it pertinent to ask if G-d could also be there, or if not, whether there was room for G-d there

    I doubt if you've read any of the resolutions, but one commonality is that they do use careful and precise, even stilted, language reserved for pronouncements. even in the ones that I disagree with on principle contain carefully worded language which make it hard to toss way completely

    Have you read the resolution you are discussing, either the 1995 resolution on race or the recent one on CRT and intersectionality? I keep looking for some sign that you have read even those two, let alone a wide range of resolutions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Do I accept the pronouncements as infallible? yes I do.
    Here's the glaring elephant in the room....

    Which version was infallible?
    The version as originally drafted?
    The version that pretty much became opposite of what was drafted?

    You might wanna examine your definition of infallibility.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I think it a good question, and am surprised at how reluctant Baptists and Protestants are in answering.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    The responses highlight that there is not even the language to really discuss this topic. It is well established that the Holy Spirit moves among men and local churches, that we can state that fact without the special qualifications that not all men, not all churches may be open to the Spirit. But in this discussion which I am purposefully focusing on large groups and denominations in general, and specifically the SBC, It seems that Cow Poke is refusing to entertain even the possibility!
    False

    I am a Catholic, believe that the SBC is in error and separate themselves from the fullness of truth (so, boilerplate Catholic views which should not really surprise anyone), but also recognize that the Holy Spirit does move within the SBC, among individuals, among or within the local churches, and even when they meet corporately, especially when meeting corporately.
    Catholicism has not served you well, Simp.

    The 1995 resolution was promulgated for the sesquecentenial, a date with significance (for some reason, round numbers have significance), they know it was coming and prepared the statement which did signal a significant shift, a radical change, and a genuine repentance.
    Wow, now we get into numerology!

    CP is curiously reserved when it comes to the possibility that the committees might pray. (ducking, dodging and weaving)
    False.

    I state with confidence that they do pray.
    That makes it a fact, eh?

    I base that on one instance in print in which a Baptist admitted that there was a prayer at one single session. But I extrapolate that sliver of knowledge, with my understanding of Baptist spirituality in which prayer has a special place and significance: I believe that the resolutions at each step are handled prayerfully, not lightly.
    You are certainly entitled to be wrong. Not everybody who puts forth a resolution has clean hands or pure intent.

    I note that CP carefully crafted the response about the 1995 resolution, it was prayerfully considered. Yet his descriptions, and language used for the recent example does not seem to allow for the movement of the Holy Spirit, not for any prayerful contemplation. I suppose CP is the measure of all things divine, if it disagrees with CP, then it is not of the divine inspiration.
    Again, lemme be very clear --- I do not believe that Resolution 9 had the Holy Spirit's inspiration, or blessing, or influence or, so to speak - fingerprints.

    Lemme show you how this is being discussed, and I'll bold the words to which I would invite your attention....

    Source: The Courrier

    The most controversial resolution at the 2019 annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention was Resolution 9, “On Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality.” While resolutions are not binding, they are important because they send a message to the larger culture, especially the secular media.

    One of the issues many had with the resolution was that the original resolution as presented by Stephen Feinstein, pastor of Sovereign Way Church in California, was altered so much by the Resolutions Committee that it changed the meaning and intent of the original resolution. Feinstein shared with The Baptist Courier that his “intent was to denounce Critical Race Theory and Intersectionality ideology so that we could hold accountable those espousing it, especially within SBC institutions.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    Anybody who has even had the slightest interaction with the Holy Spirit would recognize this is not His work. The Holy Spirit is not confused or fickle, and does not produce discord among the brethren.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Do I accept the pronouncements as infallible? yes I do. Like the Bible, like ex cathedra statments, each and every one of those can be ignored. But they cannot be ignored safely.

    Do I accept all the other resolutions as divinely inspired? yes, with the stipulation above, that the spirit takes men where they are at.

    I think it a good question, and am surprised at how reluctant Baptists and Protestants are in answering. No one had a problem with the allegations on and off tweb as the SBC annual meeting as the devil's playground.

    So I thought it pertinent to ask if G-d could also be there, or if not, whether there was room for G-d there

    I doubt if you've read any of the resolutions, but one commonality is that they do use careful and precise, even stilted, language reserved for pronouncements. even in the ones that I disagree with on principle contain carefully worded language which make it hard to toss way completely

    Have you read the resolution you are discussing, either the 1995 resolution on race or the recent one on CRT and intersectionality? I keep looking for some sign that you have read even those two, let alone a wide range of resolutions.
    Yes I read it.

    I agree with what CP said above. I don't think this was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Men are able and do ignore the Holy Spirit and do their own thing all the time. How many times in the bible does it say that the Hebrews ignored God and "did what was right in their own eyes?"

    So if the Pope spoke ex cathedra about how wives should be submissive to their Husbands, you would agree that is true then, and would follow it? (I don't think he has, just a hypothetical)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    DRAT, those are our only three options?



    Lemme try to put it into words that even you can understand:

    When I preach or teach, I rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me.
    When I decide what I want for breakfast, no so much.

    Our Church recently had a busted water pipe due to a freeze. We did not, as a Church, meet to discuss it, nor did we consult or invoke or appeal to the Holy Spirit.
    We called a plumber.

    Now, as to Resolution 9 (I think that was the number), I do not believe the author(s) sought out the Holy Spirit's leadership on that.
    Part of my reason for this belief is that, before it was even voted on, it was edited in such a manner that it no longer represented what the author(s) intended.

    Now, did the Holy Spirit err in the drafting of the Resolution? Did he change his mind when it came to editing it? Which time was he wrong?
    The very fact that there is so much controversy over this is a pretty clear indication that it did NOT have the stamp of approval of the Holy Spirit.

    God is not the author of confusion, and the Holy Spirit is ALWAYS on the same page as God.

    Was that clear enough?
    Yes, your arguments on this are driven by the conclusion that the resolution was wrong.

    There is another possibility, that the Holy Spirit intervened, preventing the SBC from promulgating error. Which would make the resolution of G-d after all, and the proposed resultion as contrary to divine will.

    The fact that the final result was pretty much a 180 from the intended resolution, as proposed, is not a necessarily a sign of confusion, but an expression of the Logos, the source of order

    Maybe the outcome was a working of divine grace.

  11. #20
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Yes, your arguments on this are driven by the conclusion that the resolution was wrong.

    There is another possibility, that the Holy Spirit intervened, preventing the SBC from promulgating error. Which would make the resolution of G-d after all, and the proposed resultion as contrary to divine will.

    The fact that the final result was pretty much a 180 from the intended resolution, as proposed, is not a necessarily a sign of confusion, but an expression of the Logos, the source of order

    Maybe the outcome was a working of divine grace.
    Or maybe not.

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