More secular proof of Jesus' existence?

[seanD]

It's not an "extrabiblical source"; it's a forgery intended to historically align with the gospels.

Only some of the material doesn't perfectly align with the gospels. There are some conflicts. The second letter of Caiaphas aligns with the gospels almost ridiculously so.

[Sparko]

The parenthesis is an oddity for sure.

This thread reminds me of an old joke.

A man in the psychiatric ward thinks he is dead. The psychiatrist tries to convince him he isn't.

"Do dead men feel pain?" asks the doctor

"Of course not!" says the patient.

The doctor sticks him with a needle.

"Ow!!" says the patient.

"See, you aren't dead! You felt pain!" says the doctor.

"Well, what do you know! Dead people CAN feel pain!" exclaims the patient.

[seanD]

This thread reminds me of an old joke.

A man in the psychiatric ward thinks he is dead. The psychiatrist tries to convince him he isn't.

"Do dead men feel pain?" asks the doctor

"Of course not!" says the patient.

The doctor sticks him with a needle.

"Ow!!" says the patient.

"See, you aren't dead! You felt pain!" says the doctor.

"Well, what do you know! Dead people CAN feel pain!" exclaims the patient.

Whatever, man. Back at ya.

[One Bad Pig]

Only some of the material doesn't perfectly align with the gospels. There are some conflicts. The second letter of Caiaphas aligns with the gospels almost ridiculously so.

Sure. Impious forgers (or ignorant pious forgers, or heretical pious forgers) are likely to include some conflicts. In the case of impious forgers, they're looking to sow doubt on the biblical narrative. In the case of heretical forgers, they're looking to bolster their heresy.

[seanD]

Sure. Impious forgers (or ignorant pious forgers, or heretical pious forgers) are likely to include some conflicts. In the case of impious forgers, they're looking to sow doubt on the biblical narrative. In the case of heretical forgers, they're looking to bolster their heresy.

I don't think Mahan was that capable or that clever. You're giving his wit the benefit of the doubt. Fair enough.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

There is even one place where he uses the word "alma" and then in parenthesis mentions it's the hebrew word for virgin.

[lee_merrill]

So "almah" does seem to imply virginity.

Blessings,
Lee

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So "almah" does seem to imply virginity.

Blessings,
Lee

I call a virgin whoever has not seen blood, even though she is married and has had children, until she has seen the first showuntil the healing of the wound.

[mikewhitney]

The rabbinic writings come too late to be good commentaries on scriptures. Anything post-Messianic is liable to be altered to make the fulfilled Messianic prophecies less apparent. There is plenty of incentive to cover-up the message of the Messiah, after the fact.

[Sparko]

Good point. But, it could be like in English where we sometimes use the word "maiden" to mean "virgin." but the technical meaning of "maiden" is just "young girl."

My point was that this guy is a phony because if he was genuinely translating a letter from Hebrew, why would he leave a Hebrew word in the translation instead of just translating it? The whole thing is so obviously a fake for many reasons.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Good point. But, it could be like in English where we sometimes use the word "maiden" to mean "virgin." but the technical meaning of "maiden" is just "young girl."

My point was that this guy is a phony because if he was genuinely translating a letter from Hebrew, why would he leave a Hebrew word in the translation instead of just translating it? The whole thing is so obviously a fake for many reasons.

Oh I agree that one finds many "wackos" around, particularly when it comes to religion.

[Sparko]

Oh I agree that one finds many "wackos" around, particularly when it comes to religion.

Yeah we tend to get a lot of nutty atheists around here who seem to have OCD and it seems their entire lives revolve around something they claim they don't even believe in.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Yeah we tend to get a lot of nutty atheists around here who seem to have OCD and it seems their entire lives revolve around something they claim they don't even believe in.

Of course the dispassionate and critical historical analysis of texts and the socio-historical context in which they were composed is altogether something quite different.

Not being a believer does not prevent an individual having an academic interest in the history and comparative study of religions.

[Sparko]

Of course the dispassionate and critical historical analysis of texts and the socio-historical context in which they were composed is altogether something quite different.

Not being a believer does not prevent an individual having an academic interest in the history and comparative study of religions.

Riiight. That explains why you spend so much time hanging out on religious forums arguing with lay Christians about what you believe are mere fairy tales.

[Seeker]

Yeah we tend to get a lot of nutty atheists around here who seem to have OCD and it seems their entire lives revolve around something they claim they don't even believe in.

You are free to believe we do actually believe in God. This is just like believing that God exists. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true.