Originally posted by mikewhitney
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Church History 201 Guidelines
Welcome to Church History 201.
Believe it or not, this is the exact place where Luther first posted the 94 thesis. We convinced him to add one.
This is the forum where the Church and its actions in history can be discussed. Since CH201, like the other fora in the History department, is not limited to participation along lines of theology, all may post here. This means that anything like Ecclesiology can be discussed without the restrictions of the Ecclesiology forum, and without the atmosphere of Ecclesiology 201 or the Apologetics-specific forum.
Please keep the Campus Decorum in mind when posting here--while 'belief' restrictions are not in place, common decency is and such is not the area to try disembowel anyone's faith.
If you need to refresh yourself on the decorm, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Believe it or not, this is the exact place where Luther first posted the 94 thesis. We convinced him to add one.
This is the forum where the Church and its actions in history can be discussed. Since CH201, like the other fora in the History department, is not limited to participation along lines of theology, all may post here. This means that anything like Ecclesiology can be discussed without the restrictions of the Ecclesiology forum, and without the atmosphere of Ecclesiology 201 or the Apologetics-specific forum.
Please keep the Campus Decorum in mind when posting here--while 'belief' restrictions are not in place, common decency is and such is not the area to try disembowel anyone's faith.
If you need to refresh yourself on the decorm, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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More secular proof of Jesus' existence?
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"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostRiiight. That explains why you spend so much time hanging out on religious forums arguing with lay Christians about what you believe are mere fairy tales."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostI detect a distinct animus. If the presence of those who challenge Christian preconceptions and beliefs causes you such irritation, and given that you are one of the owners, perhaps you should put a suggestion to the Board that this site be closed to anyone who does not profess a Christian belief.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThat would be sarcasm you're detecting, cherie. Looks like Sparko's comment hit uncomfortably close to the mark, given your reaction.
However, Sparko has made personal comments to me elsewhere on this site.
And from those remarks it appears that he does not care to have his preconceived theological ideas challenged in any way."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostIf you consider that the comments of pseudonymous contributors to a minor internet site are of any serious concern to me, you are sadly mistaken.
However, Sparko has made personal comments to me elsewhere on this site.
And from those remarks it appears that he does not care to have his preconceived theological ideas challenged in any way.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostOh, you're whinging about remarks made elsewhere. Seems like his remarks are more of a concern to you than you're willing to admit."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostOn what textual source evidence? Given that the Jewish Messiah has, as yet not arrived, how can Jewish literature contain anything "post Messianic"?Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by DesertBerean View PostPerhaps we should define what we mean by Rabbinic writings. Hilell? Gamaliel? Or the Masoretic texts?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostYou can select any Jewish writings you wish to. The Messiah has yet to arrive therefore there are no Jewish writings that contain any references to periods that are "post messianic".Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostIf you consider that the comments of pseudonymous contributors to a minor internet site are of any serious concern to me, you are sadly mistaken.
However, Sparko has made personal comments to me elsewhere on this site.
And from those remarks it appears that he does not care to have his preconceived theological ideas challenged in any way.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Which of those do you accept as being the authentic and accurate account? Is it one of the versions found in the Synoptics? If so which one?
Or is John's version correct which mentions no such Sanhedrin trial?"It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostYet you have ignored answering the question I to put you on the Stolen Land thread that is to be found on the Civics 101 board re the canonical gospels' accounts of the blasphemy charge.
Which of those do you accept as being the authentic and accurate account? Is it one of the versions found in the Synoptics? If so which one?
Or is John's version correct which mentions no such Sanhedrin trial?Last edited by Sparko; 07-14-2020, 09:10 AM.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI didn't answer because CP said to drop the discussion in that thread.
Here is what I see happening in discussions with you.
You pronounce some off the wall claim about the bible as if you were an expert. i.e. Paul never claimed to be a Jew, Jesus didn't claim to be divine, and was charged with blasphemy.Originally posted by Sparko View PostYour fringe claimsOriginally posted by Sparko View Postseem based on obscure sources in defiance to 2000 years of Christian scholarship.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhen we show you actual scripture that proves your claims wrong, you hand wave it away as either not authentic (i.e. Paul didn't really write it).
Originally posted by Sparko View Postor even claiming the scriptures are just a fiction.
So we are once again back to the question, which you persistently refuse to address, as to which of these different versions is the accurate and authentic account?
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou use the scripture when you feel it helps your case and handwave them away when they don't.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou have created a bubble of invincible ignorance around yourself that is basically a waste of my and other's time trying to pop.Originally posted by Sparko View PostEven IF the scripture is just "fiction," if you are going to debate them, you have to accept what they say in their own paradigm.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostEven if they are fiction, that doesn't mean that Jesus didn't claim to be divine, or that others claimed he was divine, or that Paul didn't claim he was Jewish within that "fiction"
If these texts are indeed fictions, [as you have remarked], then it follows that their content is likewise fiction.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAs long as you handwave away anything others say, there is no discussion to be had with you.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAs far as the gospels go, they don't all mention the same events.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAlso the Gospel of John's core message is that Jesus is divine. Heck it starts out with equating him with God! And in John 10, the Pharisees accuse him of blasphemy and equating himself with God:
You appear completely unable to comprehend that claiming to be the Jewish Messiah was not blasphemy in contemporary Judaism of the first century CE.Last edited by Hypatia_Alexandria; 07-15-2020, 03:01 PM."It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so."
Sportin' Life
Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Postmay fringe claimsyouhillbilly2000 yearsDas Leben Jesu, kritisch bearbeitetand they led him away into their council chamberOn The Trial of Jesus of Nazarethdecurio and not a tribunus militarisχιλίαρχος took part in the arrest and most likely no Annas in the investigation, thereby suggesting that both are the invention of the writer of John; it remains a possibility that Jesus was arrested by a detachment of Roman soldiers who then took him to the residence of the high priest for interrogation by some Jewish official and that he was then handed back to the Roman soldiers to be taken to stand trial before the governor. After all he could hardly have been brought to Pilate in the early morning if Pilate had not had prior knowledge of his arrest. It also needs to be remembered that, like all Imperial powers, Rome had a well organised military intelligence service.
So we are once again back to the question, which you persistently refuse to address, as to which of these different versions is the accurate and authentic account? ignoranceLogos or Wordson of Godthe only Son in the bosom of the fatheranother dramatic fiction created by the writer of John.
You appear completely unable to comprehend that claiming to be the Jewish Messiah was not blasphemy in contemporary Judaism of the first century CE.
Oh, and yes Christian scholarship goes back 2000 years to the writings of the Early Church Fathers.
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