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Thread: its not a question of if....

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    tWebber
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    its not a question of if....

    Is there any topic so full of land mines as the presidential pardon?

    Clinton used his final hours in office to pardon some pretty sketchy characters, Obama apparently pardoned thousands (I think the number was 1700). Team Trump has provided pardons to those with some pretty good elitist connections, Kin Kardashian has influence in the White House! Joe Aripaio didn't even need to apply to have his sentence commuted.

    Roger Stone: innocent lamb sent to slaughter by the deep state operatives, or the amoral ruthless political operative?

    Do you think Stone will spend any time in prison?

    Should presidential pardons or commutations be tied to elitist influence?

    And yes, I did neglect to dive into google for the precise definitions on commutation and pardon, I see both as the equivalent of a "get out of jail, free" card.

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    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplico
    its not a question of if....
    I think you're missing the latter part of this sentence.

    Roger Stone: innocent lamb sent to slaughter by the deep state operatives, or the amoral ruthless political operative?
    False dichotomy.

    Do you think Stone will spend any time in prison?
    Yes.

    Should presidential pardons or commutations be tied to elitist influence?
    It is a privilege of the President of the United States, he may use it or abuse it as he see fit. It's up the American public to vote for candidates who'll use the privilege in their interest.

  3. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    While it may be a false dichotomy, I specifically chose that wording for a reason: Most stories approach it from one of those two viewpoints. And curiously, most of the ones who did not adhere to one of the two positions were MSM sources.

    I believe public opinion has a place, that the only remedy is waiting for the election to vote out the offender.

    The president has the bully pulpit, the public has a counter, the weight of public opinion. And I think the church has a role in marshaling opinion, as well as forming opinion. Given the historical precedence of various Christian reactions to the pardoning process, then we have a responsibility to demonstrate a principled response.

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    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    The president has the bully pulpit, the public has a counter, the weight of public opinion. And I think the church has a role in marshaling opinion, as well as forming opinion. Given the historical precedence of various Christian reactions to the pardoning process, then we have a responsibility to demonstrate a principled response.
    This part seems to belong in another thread, did you do a copy-paste error?

  6. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Is there any topic so full of land mines as the presidential pardon?

    Clinton used his final hours in office to pardon some pretty sketchy characters, Obama apparently pardoned thousands (I think the number was 1700). Team Trump has provided pardons to those with some pretty good elitist connections, Kin Kardashian has influence in the White House! Joe Aripaio didn't even need to apply to have his sentence commuted.

    Roger Stone: innocent lamb sent to slaughter by the deep state operatives, or the amoral ruthless political operative?

    Do you think Stone will spend any time in prison?

    Should presidential pardons or commutations be tied to elitist influence?

    And yes, I did neglect to dive into google for the precise definitions on commutation and pardon, I see both as the equivalent of a "get out of jail, free" card.
    The President is simply pardoning people who are either paying him off or people who are connected to his corruption. That is not what the power of pardon was established for. Trump is simply using/abusing the power for his own political interests, not for mercy or the good of the country.
    Last edited by JimL; 02-23-2020 at 06:16 AM.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Trump pardoned his 'buddies'
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Trump pardoned his 'buddies'
    As did George W Bush (see Scooter Libby). And Clinton pardoned his brother (who proceeded to go out and get a DUI) and a fugitive financier immediately after wife gave millions to the Democrats, Hillary and the Clinton Library (see Marc Rich).

    In fact as long as I've been alive (going back to the Eisenhower Administration) every president has had controversial pardons.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    In fact as long as I've been alive (going back to the Eisenhower Administration) every president has had controversial pardons.
    Well, yeah, but- but Trump!
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Well, yeah, but- but Trump!
    So you are cool with a class of people who have special influence in the oval office, a power elite? Kim Kardashian did not spring to importance based on ability.

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    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    So you are cool with a class of people who have special influence in the oval office, a power elite? Kim Kardashian did not spring to importance based on ability.
    Mountain Man neither said or implied anything like that. He's just pointing at the hypocricy of specifically targetting Trump on this.

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