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Bernie Sanders Is The Front-Runner

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  • #16
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Sanders, I can see. Trump, not so much; Russians like to support the underdog, and that's not especially Trump this time around. His energy policy is doing the Russian economy no favors, as heavily dependent as it is on oil revenue, and there's no anti-Hillary grudge to further this time.
    Their strategy has always been to stir up discord among supporters for who they feel is likely to lose. To feed into feelings that they were in some way robbed or cheated.

    That's what they were doing in 2016 and that's what they'll likely do in 2020 unless they feel that there is more to gain by supporting Trump. Given the Democrats reaction in 2016 (and 2017, and 2018 and 2019), which were far more, fill in the blank, than they could have hoped for in their wildest dreams, it would not surprise me at all if they decided to keep feeding that particular fire.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Tell that to Denmark. Democratic socialism is an economic policy, a market based economy, not a political ideology. Sort of like what we have here in the U.S. except that it takes the "general welfare" into more consideration than the U.S. currently does. Without such social policies the wealth gap will just continue to grow until you end up with an oligarchy.


      democratic socialism.jpg

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      • #18
        It pains me to say this, but if Bernie gets the Democratic nomination I'll have to encourage people to vote for Trump. I'm not voting anyone who advocates socialism, and I think that's a grave threat to our society. I'm reading a book by Thomas Sowell called Intellectuals and Society, and the man has some very convincing arguments to make against this sort of economic model. Bernie is a straight-up fruitcake.
        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          Bernie Sanders Is The Front-Runner
          Put simply, the model now puts Sanders in a modestly stronger position across the board. His chances of winning rose in a bunch of states. As always in the wake of a caucus or primary, treat the forecast as a bit of an educated guess until we get more polls — the model will quickly update if new polling differs from what it expects. But the picture here isn’t all that fuzzy — Sanders is the front-runner in a race that remains extremely fluid.

          Recently demoted to second place, my popcorn money is on ...

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]42978[/ATTACH]

          It's way too early to say much, but there's one thing we can't say anymore. Bernie is not a fringe candidate.
          One problem for the 'moderates' opposing Bernie is that there are too many of them. They are splitting up the moderate vote too many ways. If one moderate candidate could emerge (one would assume either Bloomberg or Biden), he could stop Sanders. The problem is that by the time this happens, Sanders will likely have an insurmountable delegate lead.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by myth View Post
            It pains me to say this, but if Bernie gets the Democratic nomination I'll have to encourage people to vote for Trump. I'm not voting anyone who advocates socialism, and I think that's a grave threat to our society. I'm reading a book by Thomas Sowell called Intellectuals and Society, and the man has some very convincing arguments to make against this sort of economic model. Bernie is a straight-up fruitcake.
            Could we be seeing the emergence of 'Never Sanders' Democrats?

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #21
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Could we be seeing the emergence of 'Never Sanders' Democrats?
              There seem to be a sizable contingent of "only Sanders Democrats", so fair is fair.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #22
                To people who say that Denmark is socialist, all you have to do is ask actual socialists in our country about that. As the Unity List party (formerly known as the Danish Communist Party), ask Social Left, etc... in the end a welfare state does not a socialist country make.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  A market based economy is NOT economic socialism.
                  No economy is a complete market economy, OBP. Denmark, as well as other Scandanavian countries, simply has more government regulation to it's otherwise market based economy than the U.S. does. Denmark has Universal healthcare, people don't pay to see a doctor or go to hospital, they have free education, early childhood on through to college, unemployment benefits if you lose your job, you fall ill, or are disabled, they have a full years maternity leave, they ensure care for the elderly, they have a high degree of social security, etc etc.

                  How do they do it, they pay higher taxes. The economy is still market based, the government doesn't fix prices. But again, no economy is a complete market economy, and there is a difference between what the right wingers are dubbing socialism and what democratic socialism actually is.
                  Last edited by JimL; 02-24-2020, 06:56 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Moreover what Sanders has been proposing isn't what you see in Denmark. For instance, I've heard that the corporate tax rate that he wants is something like nearly 60% higher than what we see in Denmark. In fact it's pretty much the same as what we see in Cuba (a country that Sanders has long praised and been enamored with).

                    Sanders has very little in common with the genteel European Social Democrats, but has far more in common with the radical Socialist/Communists.
                    Well you heard wrong. Denmarks corporate tax rate is 25% and Sanders would raise the U.S. corporate tax rate to 35%, exactly where it was prior to 2017.
                    Last edited by JimL; 02-24-2020, 06:40 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Both the Washington Post and CNN were privy to the same "reports" as was the New York Times which claimed that the Rooskies are backing Trump. Neither of them saw a whole lot of evidence for this support with WaPo being the ones to break the news about their support for Sanders (why did the NYT underplay or even ignore this?) and Jake Tapper of CNN even came straight out and said that the Times reporting was largely full of... um, El Toro poopoo.
                      The evidence was the briefing to Congress, not to mention the fact that the Mueller investigation found that the Rooskies intent in 2016 was to help Trump. The Russians support for Sanders, in the primary, Russia believes, is the best way to secure the general election for Trump. At least Sanders acknowledged the report and lambasted Putin. What did Trump do? Well, Trump fired the DNI for allowing the briefing, but said nothing to Putin about it.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Denmark has no minimum wage! Capitalist pigs!
                        They don't need one, they have collective bargaining and the minimum wage averages much higher than in the U.S., approximately 17.00 an hour. That's twice the rate than that of the state I currently reside in.
                        Last edited by JimL; 02-24-2020, 07:10 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Their strategy has always been to stir up discord among supporters for who they feel is likely to lose. To feed into feelings that they were in some way robbed or cheated.

                          That's what they were doing in 2016 and that's what they'll likely do in 2020 unless they feel that there is more to gain by supporting Trump. Given the Democrats reaction in 2016 (and 2017, and 2018 and 2019), which were far more, fill in the blank, than they could have hoped for in their wildest dreams, it would not surprise me at all if they decided to keep feeding that particular fire.
                          You're opinion doesn't trump (no pun intended) the findings of the investigation which was that the Russians intent in 2016 was to get Trump elected.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Could we be seeing the emergence of 'Never Sanders' Democrats?
                            Nope. Certainly not when you factor in Trump.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              To people who say that Denmark is socialist, all you have to do is ask actual socialists in our country about that. As the Unity List party (formerly known as the Danish Communist Party), ask Social Left, etc... in the end a welfare state does not a socialist country make.
                              This is what bugs me about "democratic socialists" - They keep pointing to the Netherlands and saying that is what they want, but then they keep calling it socialism. If what they want is a capitalist "welfare state" then why not call it that instead of "democratic socialism?" Socialism has bad connotations. So why use the term if that is not what they actually want?

                              I think they want actual socialism, but they know nobody will go for that, so they water it down, and point to the Netherlands and say that is what they really want, and label is as "socialism" because they want to ease the people into accepting the idea of actual socialism and they get more people onboard. A bit like the old story about boiling a frog by warming up the water a little at a time.
                              Last edited by Sparko; 02-25-2020, 09:05 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                No economy is a complete market economy, OBP. Denmark, as well as other Scandanavian countries, simply has more government regulation to it's otherwise market based economy than the U.S. does. Denmark has Universal healthcare, people don't pay to see a doctor or go to hospital, they have free education, early childhood on through to college, unemployment benefits if you lose your job, you fall ill, or are disabled, they have a full years maternity leave, they ensure care for the elderly, they have a high degree of social security, etc etc.

                                How do they do it, they pay higher taxes. The economy is still market based, the government doesn't fix prices. But again, no economy is a complete market economy, and there is a difference between what the right wingers are dubbing socialism and what democratic socialism actually is.
                                I'm aware of how Denmark's economy works, thanks. Still not socialism, democratic or otherwise.
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