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Thread: Bernie Sanders Is The Front-Runner

  1. #21
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Could we be seeing the emergence of 'Never Sanders' Democrats?
    There seem to be a sizable contingent of "only Sanders Democrats", so fair is fair.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  2. #22
    Technology Staff Leonhard's Avatar
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    To people who say that Denmark is socialist, all you have to do is ask actual socialists in our country about that. As the Unity List party (formerly known as the Danish Communist Party), ask Social Left, etc... in the end a welfare state does not a socialist country make.

  3. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    A market based economy is NOT economic socialism.
    No economy is a complete market economy, OBP. Denmark, as well as other Scandanavian countries, simply has more government regulation to it's otherwise market based economy than the U.S. does. Denmark has Universal healthcare, people don't pay to see a doctor or go to hospital, they have free education, early childhood on through to college, unemployment benefits if you lose your job, you fall ill, or are disabled, they have a full years maternity leave, they ensure care for the elderly, they have a high degree of social security, etc etc.

    How do they do it, they pay higher taxes. The economy is still market based, the government doesn't fix prices. But again, no economy is a complete market economy, and there is a difference between what the right wingers are dubbing socialism and what democratic socialism actually is.
    Last edited by JimL; 02-24-2020 at 04:56 PM.

  4. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Moreover what Sanders has been proposing isn't what you see in Denmark. For instance, I've heard that the corporate tax rate that he wants is something like nearly 60% higher than what we see in Denmark. In fact it's pretty much the same as what we see in Cuba (a country that Sanders has long praised and been enamored with).

    Sanders has very little in common with the genteel European Social Democrats, but has far more in common with the radical Socialist/Communists.
    Well you heard wrong. Denmarks corporate tax rate is 25% and Sanders would raise the U.S. corporate tax rate to 35%, exactly where it was prior to 2017.
    Last edited by JimL; 02-24-2020 at 04:40 PM.

  5. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Both the Washington Post and CNN were privy to the same "reports" as was the New York Times which claimed that the Rooskies are backing Trump. Neither of them saw a whole lot of evidence for this support with WaPo being the ones to break the news about their support for Sanders (why did the NYT underplay or even ignore this?) and Jake Tapper of CNN even came straight out and said that the Times reporting was largely full of... um, El Toro poopoo.
    The evidence was the briefing to Congress, not to mention the fact that the Mueller investigation found that the Rooskies intent in 2016 was to help Trump. The Russians support for Sanders, in the primary, Russia believes, is the best way to secure the general election for Trump. At least Sanders acknowledged the report and lambasted Putin. What did Trump do? Well, Trump fired the DNI for allowing the briefing, but said nothing to Putin about it.

  6. #26
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Denmark has no minimum wage! Capitalist pigs!
    They don't need one, they have collective bargaining and the minimum wage averages much higher than in the U.S., approximately 17.00 an hour. That's twice the rate than that of the state I currently reside in.
    Last edited by JimL; 02-24-2020 at 05:10 PM.

  7. #27
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Their strategy has always been to stir up discord among supporters for who they feel is likely to lose. To feed into feelings that they were in some way robbed or cheated.

    That's what they were doing in 2016 and that's what they'll likely do in 2020 unless they feel that there is more to gain by supporting Trump. Given the Democrats reaction in 2016 (and 2017, and 2018 and 2019), which were far more, fill in the blank, than they could have hoped for in their wildest dreams, it would not surprise me at all if they decided to keep feeding that particular fire.
    You're opinion doesn't trump (no pun intended) the findings of the investigation which was that the Russians intent in 2016 was to get Trump elected.

  8. #28
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Could we be seeing the emergence of 'Never Sanders' Democrats?
    Nope. Certainly not when you factor in Trump.

  9. #29
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    To people who say that Denmark is socialist, all you have to do is ask actual socialists in our country about that. As the Unity List party (formerly known as the Danish Communist Party), ask Social Left, etc... in the end a welfare state does not a socialist country make.
    This is what bugs me about "democratic socialists" - They keep pointing to the Netherlands and saying that is what they want, but then they keep calling it socialism. If what they want is a capitalist "welfare state" then why not call it that instead of "democratic socialism?" Socialism has bad connotations. So why use the term if that is not what they actually want?

    I think they want actual socialism, but they know nobody will go for that, so they water it down, and point to the Netherlands and say that is what they really want, and label is as "socialism" because they want to ease the people into accepting the idea of actual socialism and they get more people onboard. A bit like the old story about boiling a frog by warming up the water a little at a time.
    Last edited by Sparko; 02-25-2020 at 07:05 AM.

  10. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  11. #30
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    No economy is a complete market economy, OBP. Denmark, as well as other Scandanavian countries, simply has more government regulation to it's otherwise market based economy than the U.S. does. Denmark has Universal healthcare, people don't pay to see a doctor or go to hospital, they have free education, early childhood on through to college, unemployment benefits if you lose your job, you fall ill, or are disabled, they have a full years maternity leave, they ensure care for the elderly, they have a high degree of social security, etc etc.

    How do they do it, they pay higher taxes. The economy is still market based, the government doesn't fix prices. But again, no economy is a complete market economy, and there is a difference between what the right wingers are dubbing socialism and what democratic socialism actually is.
    I'm aware of how Denmark's economy works, thanks. Still not socialism, democratic or otherwise.
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  12. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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