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Thread: Rep Mo Brooks on socialist tendencies of the political class

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    tWebber
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    Rep Mo Brooks on socialist tendencies of the political class

    "Folks, we are forcing the issue today because America is at risk. We are at risk of insolvency and bankruptcy because socialist" politicians choose "to spend money we do not have" - Rep Mo Brooks of Alabama

    And that same bright light of congress' brain trust also drew the questionable equivalency between socialists and the Nazis.

    Okay, I'll accept for the sake of the argument that we were at risk eight years ago due to the profligate spending in Washington of the socialists.But has the danger somehow past?

    Or was that merely partisan political posturing void of any reasonable basis?

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    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    "Folks, we are forcing the issue today because America is at risk. We are at risk of insolvency and bankruptcy because socialist" politicians choose "to spend money we do not have" - Rep Mo Brooks of Alabama

    And that same bright light of congress' brain trust also drew the questionable equivalency between socialists and the Nazis.

    Okay, I'll accept for the sake of the argument that we were at risk eight years ago due to the profligate spending in Washington of the socialists.But has the danger somehow past?

    Or was that merely partisan political posturing void of any reasonable basis?
    Have you read Bernie's or Warren's plan?


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Have you read Bernie's or Warren's plan?
    Are you arguing that the socialism is okay as long as it isn't as bad as Warren or Bernie? Sounds like you are extending moral relativism a little bit too far.

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    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Are you arguing that the socialism is okay as long as it isn't as bad as Warren or Bernie? Sounds like you are extending moral relativism a little bit too far.
    You asked "But has the danger somehow past?". I would suggest that as long as there are proposals like Warren and Bernie's where trillions of dollars are being proposed where no such income exists, then no. The danger has not passed.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    You asked "But has the danger somehow past?". I would suggest that as long as there are proposals like Warren and Bernie's where trillions of dollars are being proposed where no such income exists, then no. The danger has not passed.
    Okay. But have the Republicans really provided an alternative? Last I check, the deficits are rolling along unimpeded.

    I do suspect that the comment was a form of pandering to base, and not really representative of any deeply held conviction.

    Naysayers have been predicting insolvency and bakruptcy since the 1970s!

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    God, family, chicken! Bill the Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Okay. But have the Republicans really provided an alternative?
    Yes. Free market.

    Last I check, the deficits are rolling along unimpeded.
    Yeah. Entitlements are the largest outlay, followed by defense. Once you give someone something, it's hard to take it away.


    I do suspect that the comment was a form of pandering to base, and not really representative of any deeply held conviction.
    You suspect wrong.

    Naysayers have been predicting insolvency and bakruptcy since the 1970s!
    Of course they have. It works to stir people up.


    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals --- Manya the Holy Szin --- The Quintara Marathon ---

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common --- Stephen R. Donaldson ---

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    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    "Folks, we are forcing the issue today because America is at risk. We are at risk of insolvency and bankruptcy because socialist" politicians choose "to spend money we do not have" - Rep Mo Brooks of Alabama

    And that same bright light of congress' brain trust also drew the questionable equivalency between socialists and the Nazis.

    Okay, I'll accept for the sake of the argument that we were at risk eight years ago due to the profligate spending in Washington of the socialists.But has the danger somehow past?

    Or was that merely partisan political posturing void of any reasonable basis?
    Considering the trillion dollar proposals, currently presented by many of the Democrat candidates, no it hasn’t.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Considering the trillion dollar proposals, currently presented by many of the Democrat candidates, no it hasn’t.
    So the comments were prescient, looking ahead by eight years?

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    Well, when it comes to health care at least, we could actually save a lot of money and get better results by switching to a so-called "socialist" health care system (aka universal health care, single-payer, medicare for all, etc.)

    Multiple studies show that a single-payer or "Medicare for All" system would save money and lives, which is further supported by the fact that countries with such systems spend significantly less per-capita on health care than the U.S. does, yet their health care systems tend to rank higher than the ours in most categories.

    Sources:

    OECD Health spending




    Mirror, Mirror 2017: International Comparison Reflects Flaws and Opportunities for Better U.S. Health Care

    Source: Mirror, Mirror 2017: International Comparison Reflects Flaws and Opportunities for Better U.S. Health Care


    Key findings: The U.S. ranked last on performance overall, and ranked last or near last on the Access, Administrative Efficiency, Equity, and Health Care Outcomes domains. The top-ranked countries overall were the U.K., Australia, and the Netherlands. Based on a broad range of indicators, the U.S. health system is an outlier, spending far more but falling short of the performance achieved by other high-income countries. The results suggest the U.S. health care system should look at other countries’ approaches if it wants to achieve an affordable high-performing health care system that serves all Americans.

    © Copyright Original Source






    Improving the prognosis of health care in the USA

    Source: Improving the prognosis of health care in the USA


    Although health care expenditure per capita is higher in the USA than in any other country, more than 37 million Americans do not have health insurance, and 41 million more have inadequate access to care. Efforts are ongoing to repeal the Affordable Care Act which would exacerbate health-care inequities. By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68 000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.

    © Copyright Original Source






    Projected costs of single-payer healthcare financing in the United States: A systematic review of economic analyses

    Source: Projected costs of single-payer healthcare financing in the United States: A systematic review of economic analyses


    Conclusions

    In this systematic review, we found a high degree of analytic consensus for the fiscal feasibility of a single-payer approach in the US. Actual costs will depend on plan features and implementation. Future research should refine estimates of the effects of coverage expansion on utilization, evaluate provider administrative costs in varied existing single-payer systems, analyze implementation options, and evaluate US-based single-payer programs, as available.

    Author summary

    Why was this study done?

    • As the US healthcare debate continues, there is growing interest in “single-payer” also known as “Medicare for All.” Single-payer uses a simplified public funding approach to provide everyone with high-quality health insurance.
    • Public support for provision of universal health coverage through a plan like Medicare for All is as high as 70%, but falls when costs are emphasized.
    • Economic models help assess the financial viability of single-payer. Yet, models vary widely in their assumptions and methods, and can be hard to compare.


    What did the researchers do and find?

    • We found and compared cost analyses of 22 single-payer plans for the US or individual states.
    • Nineteen (86%) of the analyses estimated that health expenditures would fall in the first year, and all suggested the potential for long-term cost savings.
    • The largest savings were predicted to come from simplified billing and lower drug costs.
    • Studies funded by organizations across the political spectrum estimated savings for single-payer.


    What do these findings mean?

    • There is near-consensus in these analyses that single-payer would reduce health expenditures while providing high-quality insurance to all US residents.
    • To achieve net savings, single-payer plans rely on simplified billing and negotiated drug price reductions, as well as global budgets to control spending growth over time.
    • Replacing private insurers with a public system is expected to achieve lower net healthcare costs.

    © Copyright Original Source


  10. #10
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Yes. Free market.



    Yeah. Entitlements are the largest outlay, followed by defense. Once you give someone something, it's hard to take it away.




    You suspect wrong.



    Of course they have. It works to stir people up.
    The "free market" is a spending plan? Which segment of the economy is thee some sort of free or unimpeded marketplace? Banking is hardly a free market, the one area which was considered democratic and free from constraints a decade ago was the internet. But now many are questioning that model for information and commerce.

    Entitlements and defense. The entitlements such social security are wildly popular, even among conservatives, medicare has become sacrosanct, even among conservatives. Defense is undergirded by entitlements in the wages of service members, promises of education, health care, and retirement benefits.

    If the dire warnings of a decade ago were a deeply held conviction, then why is there so little alarm over the present excessive spending? I don't think there has been any real move to balance the budget since Bill Clinton's administration, and even then, the balance was a forecast, not a reality.

    SO naysaying serves the purpose of mobilizing a base! That explains why the gloom and doom and dire predictions are typically brought up as opposition, never as a policy.

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