Coronavirus Outbreak...

[carpedm9587]

what happened to the 15 minute test? Seems like that's all you would need to loader her up ...

Dunno...

[carpedm9587]

They should rush them a few of those rapid tests that Abbot developed. Results in 5 minutes.

That would make sense.

[carpedm9587]

Just heard: They are using one of those rapid tests that anyone who wants to get in to see the President has to take before being admitted. Hopefully they are checking the VP, Trump and all those doctors that they all stand next to everyday.

Why am I not surprised...

[carpedm9587]

But Trump was just listening to the experts!

Dr. Fauci Told Newsmax In Jan. Coronavirus ‘is not a major threat to the people of the United States’

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and one of the lead White House Coronavirus Task Force members, is on record telling Newsmax in January that the coronavirus was “not a major threat.”

https://twitter.com/newsmax/status/1...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

As was noted multiple times - MANY people downplayed the virus in January - across the world, left and right - Republican and Democrat - knowledgeable and not. That being said - I am suspect about a clearly edited video clip to extract even pieces of sentences. I'd like to see the entire original interview and have not found it.

[Charles]

Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiology professor at Harvard University, told us that there was plenty of evidence that a disease of this kind posed a serious threat and that the notion that it could not be foreseen is off base.

“Three years ago, experts were saying that bat coronaviruses could become a new pandemic,” he said in an email. “Almost two months ago, experts were saying that the new virus in Wuhan was potentially a global threat. One month ago, experts were saying that it was likely to be pandemic, and the White House’s response was that this was under control, despite the fact that the USA’s lack of testing was demonstrably giving a false picture of the extent of infection. This was foreseeable, and foreseen, weeks and months ago, and only now is the White House coming out of denial and heading straight into saying it could not have been foreseen.” https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/co...at-some-point/

Too bad when the facts don't listen to lies.

[carpedm9587]

oh please.

The article you link to makes it clear they were not expecting the coronavirus, they were some people at a conference on biodefense who said what keeps them up at night were pandemic flus. That's their cubby hole. They were speaking generically.

"Of course, the thing that people ask: 'What keeps you most up at night in the biodefense world?' Pandemic flu, of course. I think everyone in this room probably shares that concern," Azar said, before listing off efforts to mitigate the impact of flu outbreaks.


If you want to blame someone for Trump being slow to respond, blame the democrats who were in full Impeachment mode the entire month of January.

The point, Sparko - is that a pandemic was anticipated. Whether it was a super-flu or a coronavirus is largely inconsequential.

And I've heard the "it was the impeachment" defense over and over again. Trump's acquittal was February 5. He (and others) were all downplaying the situation through January, which is understandable given the circumstances. Even most of February can be largely forgiven for lack of foresight - it was a condition shared by many. By the 24th of February we had over 50 cases scattered around the nation, community spread beginning to happen, and alarms going off left and right. By then Trump had had at least a month of warnings from his intelligence groups that China was lying about the situation. The WHO had already declared an international emergency. His continued dismissal in the following three weeks, all the way through March 16th, was the critical window in which we lost time that need not have been lost.

Could we have shut down the pandemic if we shut down all borders 100% upon immediate detection of the first case? Maybe. But I doubt anyone reasonably suggests that such a thing should have been done. But by the time there were close to 4,000 cases all around the U.S., for Trump to STILL be saying "nothing to fear here," closing borders almost by happenstance, and NOT implementing aggressive action to prepare for the coming pandemic is a reflection on his chaotic and unfocused administration, his poor leadership skills, and his me-centered attitude towards everything.

[carpedm9587]

Too bad when the facts don't listen to lies.

[Mountain Man]

The point, Sparko - is that a pandemic was anticipated.

The point, carpe, is that A pandemic was anticipated, but THIS specific pandemic was not. So your President was 100% correct when he said, "Nobody knew there'd be a pandemic or an epidemic of this proportion. Nobody has ever seen anything like this before."

Is that really so hard for you to grasp? Seriously, when was the last time anybody has seen a pandemic that has essentially shut the whole world down? It certainly hasn't happened in my lifetime.

[Charles]

The point, carpe, is that A pandemic was anticipated, but THIS specific pandemic was not. So your President was 100% correct when he said, "Nobody knew there'd be a pandemic or an epidemic of this proportion. Nobody has ever seen anything like this before."

Is that really so hard for you to grasp? Seriously, when was the last time anybody has seen a pandemic that has essentially shut the whole world down? It certainly hasn't happened in my lifetime.

And yet in other contexts you try to make the point that it is not necessarily worse than the common flu. Seems the intepretation of the severity changes in order to fit whatever is convenient and puts whatever statement Trump has made in the best possible light.

[carpedm9587]

And yet in other contexts you try to make the point that it is not necessarily worse than the common flu. Seems the intepretation of the severity changes in order to fit whatever is convenient and puts whatever statement Trump has made in the best possible light.

The extremes Trump's base will go to find a way to align his various lies with reality is always a source of amazement to me. In this case, I've heard everything from, "Trump wasn't lying because nobody predicted this specific virus" to the objections MM raised in his post. They all fall flat. Experts have been warning about the possibility of a major pandemic and its impact on world systems for decades, especially as the world has effectively shrunk due to the ability to rapidly and inexpensively move around the planet and the globalization of businesses. Heck - we even have a wide variety of movies with that exact theme!

That was the very reason there was a global health team at the director level in the White House - because we came close to this kind of problem with the 2008/2009 pandemic and there was no desire for that to play out again. But, of course, if Obama did it - it must be bad...so take it apart.

In short, that no one could predict the possibility of this is pure bunk designed to do what Trump always does: shift blame for his messes. (and no - that doesn't mean Trump caused the pandemic).

[seer]

As was noted multiple times - MANY people downplayed the virus in January - across the world, left and right - Republican and Democrat - knowledgeable and not. That being said - I am suspect about a clearly edited video clip to extract even pieces of sentences. I'd like to see the entire original interview and have not found it.

Well he said basically the same thing on Feb.17:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4787209002/

So why do you keep jumping on Trump when he was just listening to the expert?

[seanD]

Well he said basically the same thing on Feb.17:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4787209002/

So why do you keep jumping on Trump when he was just listening to the expert?

Because he's a partisan hack?

[simplicio]

The point, carpe, is that A pandemic was anticipated, but THIS specific pandemic was not. So your President was 100% correct when he said, "Nobody knew there'd be a pandemic or an epidemic of this proportion. Nobody has ever seen anything like this before."

Is that really so hard for you to grasp? Seriously, when was the last time anybody has seen a pandemic that has essentially shut the whole world down? It certainly hasn't happened in my lifetime.

You are absolutely correct THIS SARS-CoV-2 was not anticipated, we did not know of its existence. However, other similar viruses were anticipated, since we saw some outbreaks in this century. Which is why the USDA meticulously catalogs avian and swine flu viruses across the country.

However the Swine flu, Avian flu, SARS epidemic all are recent examples of epidemics which were hot. They devastated Asian cities, which explains in part the early mobilization of places like Singapore. Those were anticipated by public health officials, warned about, even entering into many fictional scenarios.

SARS came close to it in 2003. It was the poor response of 2003 China which played a role in this epidemic response by China (which in itself is poor).

[carpedm9587]

Well he said basically the same thing on Feb.17:https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4787209002/

So why do you keep jumping on Trump when he was just listening to the expert?

Because February 17th is not March 16th. You might want to familiarize yourself with a little thing called calendar? It would make this discussion so much better.

February 17th: 13 cases, no community spread, AFAIK, zero deaths.
February 24th: 51 cases, community spread starting, zero deaths
March 2nd: 98 cases, extensive community spread, 6 deaths
March 9th: 583 cases, widespread community spread, 26 deaths
March 16th: 4700 cases, exponential growth evident, 87 deaths

Now for Trump:

February 27th: it will disappear (58 cases)
March 2: we'll vaccines relatively soon (actually, experts pretty unified on 12-18 months)
March 6: that's CNN fake news (in response to what do you say to people who are saying that you are not taking this seriously enough?)
March 8: announcement that political rallies will continue (Carson affirms there is no reason not to go on public TV)
March 10: "it's all really working out." (and that's the day Pence defended shaking hands)
March 13: Trump rejects any responsibility for the situation
March 15: "We have tremendous control over it"

It was not until March 17 that Trump even acknowledged it was a pandemic, AFAICT.

THAT is why I fault Trump for his response.

[rogue06]

You are absolutely correct THIS SARS-CoV-2 was not anticipated, we did not know of its existence. However, other similar viruses were anticipated, since we saw some outbreaks in this century. Which is why the USDA meticulously catalogs avian and swine flu viruses across the country.

However the Swine flu, Avian flu, SARS epidemic all are recent examples of epidemics which were hot. They devastated Asian cities, which explains in part the early mobilization of places like Singapore. Those were anticipated by public health officials, warned about, even entering into many fictional scenarios.

SARS came close to it in 2003. It was the poor response of 2003 China which played a role in this epidemic response by China (which in itself is poor).

Anticipating similar viruses and being ready to handle this virus are not the same thing. Every year we do a pretty good job anticipating what sort of flu will be predominant the next flu season (although there've been a few complete misses) and prepare for it. Even then tens of thousands in the U.S. often still die.

As for China being "poor," while most of its people are, the country is definitely not (keep that in mind when you think socialism/communism will reduce economic disparity). When you look at total wealth, or net national worth, China ranks second and is only behind the U.S. Likewise, China has the second biggest economy in the world with only the U.S. economy being bigger. And if you go by Gross Domestic Production (GDP) we see the same thing as well. The U.S. is number one followed by China.