Coronavirus Outbreak...

[rogue06]

It's ridiculous that someone powerful like Rand Paul was able to be tested out of "caution" despite having no symptoms, yet a friend of mine who has met every symptom and with a high fever for over a week was refused a test at a doctor's office, and at every other doctor's office they called in their own metro area. (Interestingly, the doctor who refused to test her still refused to speak with her without a mask.)

Unfortunately this sort of stuff will always happen: How Are the Rich and Famous Jumping the Test Queues? In England, by Paying $425. Although at that price it sounds like even those in the Middle and Working class could do it as well.

[demi-conservative]

It's ridiculous that someone powerful like Rand Paul was able to be tested out of "caution" despite having no symptoms

Ridiculous? It's common sense that people in power get more privileges. Congress is still open, and it'd be a nightmare if Congresspeople started spreading it among themselves.

[Ronson]

I had that. Hit me like Mjolnir on Dec. 28 after being around hacking, sneezing relatives on Christmas. Flattened me pretty totally for most of January and I was still way below normal for most of February. Worst cough ever. Literally scary, since I live alone; there were a few times I briefly couldn't get any air and things went black momentarily. Worst sore throat ever. Achy (It literally felt like my hair hurt. I get that feeling when I'm really sick.) Exhausted and listless. I often slept 16 hours a day. Fevers (low and only for a few days) and chills.

The loss of appetite was particularly notable, since one of my quirks is that I usually get an increased appetite when I have a cold or flu. I lost 10-15 pounds in six weeks.

I still have what feels like irritation to my glottis from the violence of the coughing. (I still have a cough, but I've had an allergy-related dry cough for over 20 years, and it got worse after I started on Lisinopril several months ago -- infamous side-effect.)

Really don't know whether it was Kung Flu or a really bad "regular" flu.

I had shots for the flu back in October; of course, shots only protect from a singular flu strain. I never had a sore throat with this one, just the "tickle" that kept me coughing.

But your affliction is similar enough and early enough to where I am second guessing now. Maybe it was a secondary flu.

[Ronson]

Ridiculous? It's common sense that people in power get more privileges. Congress is still open, and it'd be a nightmare if Congresspeople started spreading it among themselves.

But what's ridiculous in this scenario is the tests don't help the privileged at all. If anything, they get ostracized and quarantined while sick poorer folks are going to the beach or eating out. The privileged aren't getting a cure.

[carpedm9587]

I asked what you would have done differently.

• Been honest from the outset with the American people about the severity of the virus. Given what information we had at the time due to China lying to us for months he was giving us what he knew trying to make sure that there was no panic. The China government still isn't being honest with us.

Sorry, Rum. Trump was receiving security briefings indicating that China was not being straightforward through January and February. As he was getting that intel, he was dimissing it and telling everyone "it's not a pandemic" and "we have it under control." Precious weeks were lost while people kept complacently doing what they had always done.

• Brought governors and the mayors of major cities into the loop at the outset, especially those with detected infections, to get action going at the state level as quickly as possible. [B]He did do that all that including keeping them in the loop, the Democrat Governor of my State Governor Newsom gave him praise for it California is one of the states that has detected infections.[/B

Rum, Trump has since interacted with individual governors. As far as I know, the first concerted effort to gather than as a group for this express purpose was three days ago by conference call. He did indeed actually have all of them at the White House on February 10. Please review the list of things he talked about or listen to the presentation he made. Not a single word about coronavirus, and this is February 10, well after he had been receiving security briefings about it and even after he had closed off most travel from China.

• Identified supply gaps, invoked the Defense Production Act, and actually acted on it as soon as the gaps were identified. We have known that hand sanitizer, masks, and ventilators (to name a few things) were likely to be in short supply for weeks now. He did identify the supply gaps and before invoking the Defense production Act got together with the private sector to see how they could handle this emergency and got results from that. You are complaining because he didn't immediately act like the Dictator you assume he is.

Wow - talk about a major dismissal. No, Rum, I'm not. As I said in a previous post, invoking the Defense Production Act is one of the acts I believe are warranted by this crisis. So is declaring a national emergency. I didn't support that for his stupid border wall, but I have supported it for this. This is actually an emergency. Unfortunately, both came too late and neither is being leveraged well.

• Instructed my entire cabinet and congressional leaders (which have required actually meeting with them) to get on the same page and push the social-distancing and hand-washing message everywhere and consistently, instead of the garbled messaging from such characters as Nunes, Pence, Carson, and Trump himself, to name a few. it is news to me that they haven't been pushing the social distancing and hand-washing etc and as for supposed garbled messaging I suspect it is the usual suspects in the media taking things out of context in order to keep their false narrative of orangeman bad going.

I think not. Six days ago, Devin Nunes tweeted to everyone to "shop and eat locally". That was March 15th. No comment from the White House contradicting him. This was the messaging from Ben Carson on March 8th. Again, no comment that I can find correcting a cabinet member. On March 10th, Pence was defending politicians shaking hands. I won't even bother with the nonstop list of ridiculous things Trump has been saying, but Republicans for Rule of Law put many of them together in a handy commercial I have linked previously - you can find it here. There have been similar disjoint messaging from other members of the GOP, and yet many of them (as well as Dems) were selling stock as this unfolded. There are two possibilities there: 1) they did the selling themselves, which is unethical and probably illegal. 2) the trades were made by their financial representatives without their knowledge. In that case, someone has to explain to me how the financial people could see the problems coming and shift positions but the people at the top of our government were "confused by the Chinese?" It doesn't make much sense to me.

as for

• Directed the CDC to validate the German protocols and clear state labs to develop tests as soon as he WHO declared a global pandemic. I'll give you that ok so you would have micromanaged things I get it. and are again complain about Trump not acting like the dictator you assume he is.

No - but I'll give you that I badly worded the item. I would have directed the leaders of the CDC to explore ALL options that would get safe test kits out to the markets as quickly as possible, including possibly validating the German protocols and opening things up at the state level. The role of the leader is to set direction and clear obstacles out of the way so those on the front lines can succeed. Trump was too busy working on the media spin and (increasingly) trying to find someone to blame.

• I would never have allowed the global health response team within the NSC to be disbanded, not in the age of global travel and the new array of viruses we have been seeing. The last pandemic was only 10 years ago. No he did not Disband the NSC Global health response team he moved them to a different department keeping them at the ready in order that they would not be sitting there doing nothing. they were there and ready to be used when this hit.

I would love to see your sources for this claim. It flies in the face of everything I have seen and read.

• Adopted a "the buck stops here" posture - it is the mark of a leader who is taking charge. "Not my fault" is the whine of a toddler. Sorry it is China who lied for months and is still lying to detract from their responsibility. Trump was just telling the truth about their lack of candor about the virus months ago and you can't handle truth can you

I suggest you review the video. Trump basically says "I accept no responsibility." And I repeat, the intel community was raising the alarm about this and China's deception as far back as January. If Trump had used that information and tailored both his messaging and his actions, we would be in a far better place today. Instead he did what he was pretty much always done: discounted information he didn't want to see and ignored his experts.

• Used a declaration of national emergency to ensure that ALL tests would be free to those taking them. At present, they are only free to those with insurance, AFAIK. hmm maybe because it is not needed I've been seeing tweets and others news that shows that there are those in the private sector willing to do just that. You are still complaining because Trump is not acting like the Dictator you assume him to be.

This is an easy dismissal the you keep returning to, Rum, for anything for which you have no other response. The fact is, the executive exists exactly because it is more responsive than a 535-member deliberative body. In a time of crisis, it is expected that the leader will take action decisively. Trump did not. I have not complained that he invoked the Defense Production Act or declared a national emergency because both are appropriate responses to this crisis. I have complained that he did both too late and still has not leveraged them to actually protect U.S. citizens to the maximum possible. So your response here is simply inadequate.

You mean the same Democrats that said his travel ban on those coming from China was not necessary? You mean the same Democrats that complained about the Task force Trump put in place in January because it was not diverse enough. You mean Democrat Joe Biden the democrat who listed everything Trump was doing at the time and said that is what he would do except for closing the borders when he was asked what he would do? give me a break the Democrats weren't calling for the actions Trump took weeks before he did them they were decrying him for taking the virus seriously enough to try and get ahead of it to bad the Chicoms lied for months before that January 30th WHO announcement when it would have done some good.

Not the same Democrats, unless you know of someone out there that was saying both things simultaneously. As with many (most?) things, the Democrats do not act as one unified body. I realize that the herd mentality that has infected the GOP makes that seem strange, but it is the case. SO while some Democrats were saying the things you list here, others were responding differently. Closing the borders is a fairly obvious pain point between the parties. Since the GOP, led by Trump, has been leveraging any possible excuse to reduce and/or eliminate immigration (both legal and illegal) since the outset of his campaign and throughout his presidency, it seems to me fairly natural that there would be a knee jerk reaction to a border closing put in place for an unspecified period of time. I still am, frankly, unsure about its benefits. On the one hand, it smacks of slamming the barn door after the horse is already gone. On the other hand, social isolation is one of the most powerful tools in our arsenal - which suggests isolation at multiple levels: person-to-person, city-to-city, state-to-state, national-to-nation. Ensuring the latter helps to support the former. So I am generally in support of it, but still have doubts that this president and his cronies don't simply see it as a way to further their isolationist/nationalist agendas.

And the "the Chinese lied" narrative simply does not serve as an adequate excuse for Trump's mismanagement, IMO.

[carpedm9587]

It's ridiculous that someone powerful like Rand Paul was able to be tested out of "caution" despite having no symptoms, yet a friend of mine who has met every symptom and with a high fever for over a week was refused a test at a doctor's office, and at every other doctor's office they called in their own metro area. (Interestingly, the doctor who refused to test her still refused to speak with her without a mask.)

The difference: power and money

[carpedm9587]

Unfortunately this sort of stuff will always happen: How Are the Rich and Famous Jumping the Test Queues? In England, by Paying $425. Although at that price it sounds like even those in the Middle and Working class could do it as well.

A claim that flies in the face of the data that suggests some 40% of Americans cannot deal with an unexpected $400 expense.

[carpedm9587]

I had shots for the flu back in October; of course, shots only protect from a singular flu strain. I never had a sore throat with this one, just the "tickle" that kept me coughing.

But your affliction is similar enough and early enough to where I am second guessing now. Maybe it was a secondary flu.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the annual flu vaccine is actually a "cocktail" that protects against the flu strains seen as most likely to be circulating that year. The one used in the U.S. actually protects against four strains.

[demi-conservative]

But what's ridiculous in this scenario is the tests don't help the privileged at all. If anything, they get ostracized and quarantined while sick poorer folks are going to the beach or eating out. The privileged aren't getting a cure.

Congress still needs to (dys)function, so senators get extra privileges for testing. So will Trump, Pence, and key people in the administration. That's simple.

[JimL]

But what's ridiculous in this scenario is the tests don't help the privileged at all. If anything, they get ostracized and quarantined while sick poorer folks are going to the beach or eating out. The privileged aren't getting a cure.

Getting tested helps the government understand what's going on and how better to deal with it, it doesn't in itself do the patient any good other than to make him aware that he has it. They should be testing everyone and anyone who has symptoms for that reason, but there is no treatment as of now and unless you are very sick you're told to go home and quarantine yourself anyway, rich or poor. Nobody's getting a cure!

[demi-conservative]

unless you are very sick your told to go home and quarantine yourself anyway, rich or poor.

Yes, for most people there's no real point getting tested.

[JimL]

Yes, for most people there's no real point getting tested.

The point of getting tested is to better understand what's going on, and how best to contain the virus from being spread.

[demi-conservative]

The point of getting tested is to better understand what's going on, and how best to contain the virus from being spread.

The US and most countries don't have enough test kits at the moment to meet current patient needs, better understanding of what's going on has to wait.

For now until testing capabilities improve*, if your illness is not serious, don't call to ask for a test. You don't get any special treatment even if you test positive, you don't get the test anyway, and they get too many calls as it is.

*depends on which country you're in. A few countries have enough tests

[carpedm9587]

The US and most countries don't have enough test kits at the moment to meet current patient needs, better understanding of what's going on has to wait.

For now until testing capabilities improve*, if your illness is not serious, don't call to ask for a test. You don't get any special treatment even if you test positive, you don't get the test anyway, and they get too many calls as it is.

*depends on which country you're in. A few countries have enough tests

And that is the failing being pointed out. Action to fill that gap was taken WAY too late in the process, which results in the situation you have painted: we have to preserve precious kits for diagnostic purposes and have little or no data about how widely/deeply the virus has embedded itself in our societies. So we don't know if we are over-reacting or under-reacting and haven't known from the outset.

And yes, steps could have been taken sooner (e.g., permitting state labs to act independently sooner than 3/16, validating and promoting the German protocols, leveraging the funds available through a national emergency declaration and the powers accessible through the Defense Production Act). Trump and his administration are a day late and a dollar short, and the only defense being offered is "what about the other countries?" or "what about Obama?" or "Those nasty Chinese lied to us."

[NorrinRadd]

I had shots for the flu back in October; of course, shots only protect from a singular flu strain. I never had a sore throat with this one, just the "tickle" that kept me coughing.

But your affliction is similar enough and early enough to where I am second guessing now. Maybe it was a secondary flu.

I've never bothered with flu shots, but I think I'll change my practice in future.

Most of the sore throat was due to "post nasal drip" that was thicker than old honey and seemed to be caustic as battery acid. From what I've read online, sore throats are common with colds, but not with flu. Whatever. Those symptom lists never account for all individual variations.