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  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    One can have a cell phone, without having an iPhone 11 Pro or a Galaxy s20 Ultra. It takes around a year to save 400 dollars total, by saving 30 a month. Not impossible.
    No one is claiming that people cannot save $400 in a year. The study made determined that 40% of the population cannot handle an unexpected $400 crisis. Unexpected - not "after saving for a year."
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      funny, California's governor, a democrat has been praising Trump's quick response and follow through on everything he promised and they asked for.
      Again...what some of the governors are saying...
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        Did you see the chart I posted for you Mr. data?
        You should follow the thread more closely, Sparko. I acknowledged that my analysis was flawed quite a while ago.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          No one is claiming that people cannot save $400 in a year. The study made determined that 40% of the population cannot handle an unexpected $400 crisis. Unexpected - not "after saving for a year."
          The question isn’t “if you have an unexpected expense” but “when you have an unexpected expense”. You should save for the unexpected.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Again - if a comment is about a statistic, like "40% cannot afford an unexpected $400 crisis," an example is meaningless. If my claim was "no one in the 40% spends money on luxuries," an example of a single person doing so would destroy the argument. When the proposition is "40% cannot afford a $400 unexpected expense," if you wish to show that this 40% (or any significant part thereof) is spending their money frivolously on luxuries like annual phone upgrades and hundreds of dollars a month on cell phone bills, you need to cite a few statistics that actually associated such expenditures with that 40%. If you cannot, then your response is rather pointless since it does not address the argument.

            I absolutely agree that some people spend money frivolously, even when they are impoverished. I have no statistics about how prevalent this is, and given the wide range of disagreement on what constitutes a "luxury," I'm not sure how anyone could make this case. And the "hundreds of dollars a month" claim, which you originally made and now have adjusted to "$100 or more a month" (somewhat lowering the bar in the process) is also rather difficult to support. Most carriers now have all-you-can-eat plans that are below $60 per month. I'm paying $150 per month and for that I am providing phones to myself, my wife, my elderly mother, and my parents-in-law.

            All in all, I'm not finding your argument very compelling given the original post it appears to be responding to.
            Nice, so I need to bring forth all these facts and figures and all you need to do is bring forth a survey and act as though it’s 100% Un refutable truth. Thus the pointlessness of debating anything with you. I grew up lower middle class Carp, many of them complain of not affording things while having the newest phone in their pocket, with maxed out credit cards, and huge car payments. I see it all the time, so sorry, I think I’ll choose to believe my lying eyes this time.
            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-23-2020, 12:07 PM.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              The question isn’t “if you have an unexpected expense” but “when you have an unexpected expense”. You should save for the unexpected.
              What people should or should not do is not the issue. We are in crisis, and the numbers suggest that 40% of the population cannot deal with an unexpected $400 expense. That number was offered in a response to the claim that a $456 price tag for the test should be easily accessible to most people. What they can do going forward is irrelevant. What they can do now is. When you couple these numbers with the millions of people still uninsured, you arrive at my belief that the tests should be made free for everyone, with or without insurance.

              Knowing the extent of the virus is critical for planning. Knowing who is or has been infected can be instrumental in many different decisions. Without the information, people are making "best guess" decisions rather than informed ones.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                Nice, so I need to bring forth all these facts and figures and all you need to do is bring forth a survey and act as though it’s 100% Un refutable truth. Thus the pointlessness of debating anything with you.
                Nice dodge, Pix. In most discussions, you refute one evidence-based claim with other (presumably countering) evidence-based claim. I am pointing out that you have not done this. You have simply made vague assertions. Furthermore, at no point did I say "100% unrefutable truth," so that is a strawman. I simply pointed out the inability of your vague claims to counter the offered evidence.

                Then, instead of an actual evidence-based response, you resort to ad homs. If you don't have an answer or the evidence for an answer, Pix, just say so. It's not a crime and it's doesn't make you stupid. Perhaps you will find the evidence you seek at some other time.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  What people should or should not do is not the issue. We are in crisis, and the numbers suggest that 40% of the population cannot deal with an unexpected $400 expense. That number was offered in a response to the claim that a $456 price tag for the test should be easily accessible to most people. What they can do going forward is irrelevant. What they can do now is. When you couple these numbers with the millions of people still uninsured, you arrive at my belief that the tests should be made free for everyone, with or without insurance.

                  Knowing the extent of the virus is critical for planning. Knowing who is or has been infected can be instrumental in many different decisions. Without the information, people are making "best guess" decisions rather than informed ones.
                  And that doesn’t deal with the point at all carp. Life happens all around us and complaining of not being able to afford things while you’ve been affording all sorts of things is the problem. Tires do wear out, kids do grow out of cloths, unplanned storms do damage your house/car/ property. This is yet another one of life happenings. And I’m not talking about testing, rather the assertion that people can’t afford an extra 400 dollar unexpected expense.
                  Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-23-2020, 12:12 PM.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    And that doesn’t deal with the point at all carp. Life happens all around us and complaining of not being able to afford things while you’ve been affording all sorts of things is the problem.
                    Again, Pix, if you have some evidence-based response to make, I'll be happy to look at it. Until then, my opinions will be formed by the available evidence, not by vague assertions that do not address the issue and simply conform to someone's pre-existing narrative.


                    ETA: I kind of like "carp." Makes me think of Don Knotts in "The Incredible Mr. Limpet."
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Again, Pix, if you have some evidence-based response to make, I'll be happy to look at it. Until then, my opinions will be formed by the available evidence, not by vague assertions that do not address the issue and simply conform to someone's pre-existing narrative.
                      Carp brings forth a narrative = okay!

                      Others bring forth things carp doesn’t like = ‘how dare they don’t back up every word they said!’

                      Thus carp can hold onto his narrative while complaining about others doing what he does.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        Again, Pix, if you have some evidence-based response to make, I'll be happy to look at it. Until then, my opinions will be formed by the available evidence, not by vague assertions that do not address the issue and simply conform to someone's pre-existing narrative.


                        ETA: I kind of like "carp." Makes me think of Don Knotts in "The Incredible Mr. Limpet."
                        Do you have evidence, beyond a survey?
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • FYI your own source:

                          “The Survey of Household Economics and Decision Making asks people how they would pay for an unforeseen $400 expense. If a respondent said they simply wouldn’t be able to or would have to borrow money, sell something or neglect other bills to do so, they were included in the share of people for whom coming up with the money would be a challenge, which added up to that alarming 40%. Yet the Survey of Consumer Finances, which asks respondents for their bank account balance, found the share of households who have less than $400 in their checking or savings accounts was closer to 20%.”

                          Their answer was debt, mainly in the form of credit cards was causing the problems. Looks like I was right after all, unneeded things soak up a lot of money.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            You always have a few bad apples. Just like on tweb.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              You should follow the thread more closely, Sparko. I acknowledged that my analysis was flawed quite a while ago.
                              I skipped about 7 pages. This thread grew quickly over the weekend. sorry.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                                Carp brings forth a narrative = okay!
                                Others bring forth things carp doesn’t like = ‘how dare they don’t back up every word they said!’

                                Thus carp can hold onto his narrative while complaining about others doing what he does.[/QUOTE]

                                You are welcome to link to any post I've made where I have been unwilling to provide the evidence that supports the views I hold. Until then, this is largely another ad hom. You're welcome to argue that way if you wish, Pix, it just won't do a lot to convince.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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