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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    IT doesn't matter what procedures are in place for an emergency situation if the person at the helm doesn't have the sense to know he needs to act and he needs to act quickly.
    Right, and that's why Trump was one of the first world leaders to restrict travel despite liberal idiots calling him racist and xenophobic. Of course now they're claiming he didn't act quickly enough. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
      I read somewhere that the Governor of Florida somehow blocked flights from New York for just that reason?
      He's putting arrivals from New York in a two week quarantine, although I heard he's expanding it to anyone coming from another state which if true pretty much shuts down any shipments via truck or train.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
        Tell that to Beth Cameron who headed the office in 2015, who said "Our team would likely have spotted the Covid 19 virus long before there were cases in the U.S. We would definitely have been sending up flares."
        Right, an assertion that is impossible to prove, but it sure is easy to say, "We would have totally done a better job if we were in charge!"
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          You just bend the knee to them because they're fellow travelers in that they don't like Trump either. Any enemy of my enemy... right?
          I have not bent any knees to them rogue. In fact, I do a good bit of the opposite. Which is why the character and tone of your accusation is absolutely laughable and to the highest degree. You have no clue
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            I have not bent any knees to them rogue. In fact, I do a good bit of the opposite. Which is why the character and tone of your accusation is absolutely laughable and to the highest degree. You have no clue
            There has been at least one and IIRC a few more of your posts in the various threads about this pandemic where I directly called you out for your attempt to alleviate the Chinese government of any culpability and shift it all onto Trump.

            Ironically, I started calling it the Chicom coronavirus specifically to distinguish between the government and the people of China. But in your mind any associating the Chicoms to the pandemic that they allowed to spread unchecked is racist.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              There has been at least one and IIRC a few more of your posts in the various threads about this pandemic where I directly called you out for your attempt to alleviate the Chinese government of any culpability and shift it all onto Trump.

              Ironically, I started calling it the Chicom coronavirus specifically to distinguish between the government and the people of China. But in your mind any associating the Chicoms to the pandemic that they allowed to spread unchecked is racist.
              Rogue - the official name of the virus is covid-19 or SARS-Cov-2. That is its name. You are using 'Chicom virus' for ideological reasons, reasons that are scientifically inaccurate. Mistakes have been made by many of the governments that have cost thousands of lives. Your focus on what China did is not objective. Do you suppose Italy is where it is because Italy responded correctly? Or Iran? Or the US? You are singling them out because you don't like them, not because there is any real reason to do so. The Chinese communist government's actions were wrong, but they are not the reason the virus is where it is and the countries of the world are struggling with it as they are. There is no logical reason to focus your attention on them at the expense of others, most notably Trump.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                I read somewhere that the Governor of Florida somehow blocked flights from New York for just that reason?
                I believe the edict was mandatory self-isolation for 14 days for anyone arriving in Florida from NYC.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • With all of the claims about timelines, I went looking for a timeline of this virus. This one is pretty good, but not exhaustive. In reading it, I come to the conclusion that significant lapses and mistakes were made on the American side by Trump. They continue to be made. AFAIK, there is still no coordination of necessary resources leaving the states to outbid each other for needed supplies, there is still no action on the Defense Production Act, and the National Emergency Declaration has not resulted in substantial federal action. Add to that the constant stream of misinformation coming from Mr. Trump's tweets and speeches, and I'd basically give him a D+ for this one so far. He avoids an F only because he actually has done a few things right, IMO.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Right, and that's why Trump was one of the first world leaders to restrict travel despite liberal idiots calling him racist and xenophobic. Of course now they're claiming he didn't act quickly enough. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.
                    The virus will score his performance. It does not care for opinions; only action, and it’s against the clock.
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Rogue - the official name of the virus is covid-19 or SARS-Cov-2. That is its name. You are using 'Chicom virus' for ideological reasons, reasons that are scientifically inaccurate. Mistakes have been made by many of the governments that have cost thousands of lives. Your focus on what China did is not objective. Do you suppose Italy is where it is because Italy responded correctly? Or Iran? Or the US? You are singling them out because you don't like them, not because there is any real reason to do so. The Chinese communist government's actions were wrong, but they are not the reason the virus is where it is and the countries of the world are struggling with it as they are. There is no logical reason to focus your attention on them at the expense of others, most notably Trump.
                      Sounds like you're walking back from your claim that it is pejorative but rather ideological instead

                      And did Italy repeatedly and intentionally mislead the world about the nature of it? Did they destroy evidence to cover it up? Did they deliberately lie to the WHO so that potentially infected Chinese nationals could be free to travel the world and spread the disease far and wide?

                      Did Iran? Or the U.S.?

                      And your last sentence gives the game away. You've repeatedly tried to shift all the blame on to Trump and don't want anything to detract from efforts to do so. So you get upset when someone points out just what the Chicoms have done.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Rogue - the official name of the virus is covid-19 or SARS-Cov-2. That is its name.
                        H1N1 is an official designation, but people still call it the swine flu. And looking up the clinical name for a West Nile Virus, I found this on Wikipedia: "WNV is one of the Japanese encephalitis antigenic serocomplex of viruses, together with Japanese encephalitis virus, Murray Valley encephalitis virus, Saint Louis encephalitis virus and some other flaviruses."

                        Look, man, unless they're in the medical field, people are going to use common names when talking about diseases. Get over it.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dirtfloor View Post
                          The virus will score [Trump's] performance. It does not care for opinions; only action, and it’s against the clock.
                          Comments like that make me wonder which team you're cheering for.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            No - but they don't have to. they have tested enough people to control the outbreak. That means they know the majority of those carrying the virus, otherwise it would still be spreading exponentially. Do you want me to show you the equations that describe the percent of the population carrying the virus which must be known and quarantined to curb exponential growth?
                            Have you not been reading the data on testing? Here, let me show you:

                            A “false-negative” outcome is when someone is tested and found to be clear of the disease, but when tested again, are found to have it. The WHO’s guidelines for laboratory testing of COVID-19 say that negative results “do not rule out the possibility of COVID-19 virus infection.”7

                            This means that even in countries that have done lots of tests, the true number of COVID-19 cases is still uncertain, although of course more testing still means more certainty.

                            There haven’t been many studies into how common false negatives are, so it’s hard to know how big an impact they have on our understanding – but research is going on.

                            https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing


                            If you continue to read and look at their charts, you’ll find the US is among the top 5 countries to have performed COVID-19 test as of 20 March. You’ll also see that there is some wiggle room in there.

                            To stop a disease spread from growing R0 must be BELOW 1. If every person infects between 2 and 3 (say 2.3)., then to reduce R0 to less than 1, you must know and have quarantied at any given time 1 - 1/2.3 of the population carrying the disease. That is 56% of the population. That means that S. Korea has tested enough people to have in quarantine AT LEAST 56% of its infected population. That means that the real low bound for the mortality rate is .56*1.3 or .73%. That's the most you can get. And given they have turned the corner and are seeing continuously diminishing infections, they have clearly uncovered significantly more than 56% of the current infected population, meaning the real mortality is >.73%.
                            South Korea also is more urbanized, with a larger percentage of the population, living closer together. Their population density is 503 people, per KM2 while ours is 36 people per KM2. This matters, with an infectious disease. More spread out = less chance for community spread = less total infections. (Italy is 206). This stuff all matters and is things you’re ignoring in your ‘get Trump’ mentality.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              That right there defines how absolutely dishonest you are. I do not support the Chinese government in the slightest, and you should know that. But that doesn't stop you from trying to silence me with such ridiculous accusations. Ad hominem at its finest. You can't win the argument, so you go after the integrity of the man.

                              I am for the truth. And I will not acknowledge a lie even if it is about something as evil as the Chinese governmental system. They did not cause this virus, and it is very unlikely that their actions could have contained it. Further, an equally bad set of deceptions and mistakes have been engaged in by our own government, though they are of a much different character. We aren't letting Doctors that blow the whistle die or herding people with drones, but our government leaders have risked the lives of millions of Americans on their re-election hopes.

                              What the Chinese government does (appear) to have done is ACT once it was clear it could not be contained. Which is a good bit more than I can say for our own federal government leaders (Not that I would want trump to act completely as they acted). But at least they took action and in the end (appear) to have contained it.

                              S. Korea HAS contained it using a similar set of actions adopted to the realities of a free and democratic state.

                              The key difference for both is not sitting on their hands listening to idiot conspiracy theories and pretending there is some reason to think this will just go away!

                              Unfortunately, we are still playing stupid political games and trying to cast the blame for our own mistakes on other nations.
                              How much is China paying you to repeat their propaganda, for them?
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Comments like that make me wonder which team you're cheering for.
                                This is the nature of the problem. It is mathematics. We can adjust certain variables by the actions we take, collectively. Very good organisation and leadership are required for the best performance.
                                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                                “not all there” - you know who you are

                                Comment

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