Coronavirus Outbreak...

[lilpixieofterror]

Again - what they think of you doesn't change who and what you are. Only you can do that. Blaming them doesn't change the fact that it is you making the decision to sink into the muck with them.

And believe me, I understand. I have sunk into the muck with them more than once. Funny thing is, I have found that I am treated the same way whether I sink into the muck with them or stay true to who I want to be. And I feel MUCH better about myself when I do the latter. Unfortunately...I still am not 100% consistent about that.

My wife says I'm a work in progress...

Vs, passive aggressiveness.

[Starlight]

It's also interesting that most of the people saying "I don't need a mask - God will take care of me!*" do not seem to apply that same philosophy to guns.

*Not to mention, that this statement completely ignores the purpose masks serve: protection of others - not protection of the self.

Perhaps that simply shows that selfishness is the underlying value driving their behavior.

If you think about what values Trump exemplifies, above all else, the answer has to be Selfishness.

If you look at Ayn Rand's works, the "virtue" she praised above all else, was Selfishness.

Perhaps its not surprising to see Trumpists and Libertarians acting primarily out of selfishness. The only surprise really is that they can seriously consider themselves "Christians" while doing so.

[lilpixieofterror]

Perhaps that simply shows that selfishness is the underlying value driving their behavior.

If you think about what values Trump exemplifies, above all else, the answer has to be Selfishness.

If you look at Ayn Rand's works, the "virtue" she praised above all else, was Selfishness.

Perhaps its not surprising to see Trumpists and Libertarians acting primarily out of selfishness. The only surprise really is that they can seriously consider themselves "Christians" while doing so.

That’s not true, but I’ve gotten pretty used to your dishonesty, so I shouldn’t be surprised at all.

[Starlight]

That’s not true, but I’ve gotten pretty used to your dishonesty, so I shouldn’t be surprised at all.

I value truth extremely highly and so don't do dishonesty. Stop projecting.

If you can point to an honest error in what I said, feel free to point it out. Are you saying Trump doesn't exemplify selfishness? Are you saying Ayn Rand didn't praise it?

[lilpixieofterror]

I value truth extremely highly and so don't do dishonesty. Stop projecting.

If you can point to an honest error in what I said, feel free to point it out. Are you saying Trump doesn't exemplify selfishness? Are you saying Ayn Rand didn't praise it?

So do you value:

- more people being made homeless?
- increases in food stamps?
- increases in suicides?
- increases in people seeking help from food banks?
- increases in joblessness.
- increases in food prices, in already cash strapped people?
- shortages, brought on by stress the lockdowns are causing the supply chain?

You’re attacking a strawman, as always. There’s several reasons to oppose endless lockdowns. Among those reasons I listed above. There’s a whole range of positions you’re ignoring in your zeal to paint your opponents as evil. Among those is the increase in suffering of millions, thanks to being separated from their incomes.

[Starlight]

You’re attacking a strawman, as always. There’s several reasons to oppose endless lockdowns.

The topic of my post was mask-wearing not lockdowns. Stop straw manning, and stop projecting about other people strawmanning.

[lilpixieofterror]

Sources for these claims, please?

What one? 25-50 percent of people have little to no symptoms after two weeks? We know they exist because several passengers in the Royal Princess tested positive, but had no symptoms after two weeks (around 17%, as I recall). A troubling finding, if the goal is to stop or slow down the spread.

No one said "stop it," Pix. The operative term is "mitigate." Until there is a vaccine, mitigation is the best we have. That means masks, social distancing, proper hygiene, and is highly dependent on testing (which we are still falling short on).

Too bad my attack is focused on forever lockdowns.

The situation is often posed as a false dichotomy: lockdown versus reopen. The reality is a continuum. Lockdown brings risk of death due to economic and emotional factors. Reopening brings risk due to the virus. Lockdown for a long period of time and you minimize virus risks but maximize deaths due to lockdown-related factors. Lockdown for too short a period of time and you maximize virus risks but minimize deaths due to lockdown-related factors. There is a point of crossover between these two which is essentially impossible to predict.

Reality - you can’t keep everyone locked away forever. Sooner or later, the problems lockdowns cause surpasses the problems not locking down does. Considering the rising unemployment, rising cost of food, rising cases of homelessness, rising failure of small business, stress on the supply chain, etc. We’re reaching that point already.

Ergo - there is only one viable approach: establish careful, systematic, data-guided reopening criteria, and track infections as well as deaths due to both factors - then adjust reopening in light of the data - reopening slower or even reversing direction if virus-related deaths surge and lockdown-related deaths do not, and reopening faster if lockdown-related deaths surge and virus-related deaths do not. We have the tools for doing this. What is missing is effective leadership to put the tools in place and ensure they are used.

I disagreed with this where? What we’re lacking is leadership alright, many governors are screwing up badly and extending lockdowns for months on end.

Instead, we have politicians (and private individuals) playing partisan games, encouraging whatever faction that most aligns with their "base" and denigrating "the other side." The inevitable results of that will be needless deaths.

Do you include Democrats in your assessment too?

[lilpixieofterror]

The topic of my post was mask-wearing not lockdowns. Stop straw manning, and stop projecting about other people strawmanning.

And your assertions that your opponents are all selfish, is unfair and merely a strawman. Believe it or not, people can disagree with you and not be evil. Many see mask as useless and not doing their intended function and I can’t say I totally disagree. I see many grabbing their mask, adjusting it, pulling it off, etc. Which defeats the purpose of mask wearing.

[oxmixmudd]

Yet more consequences of the lack of leadership from the white house WRT the coronavirus pandemic:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/healt...day/index.html

Trump solution - move on, pretend it's all over, next problem please.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/media...ews/index.html

and to sow seeds of doubt related to the upcoming election:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/polit...ton/index.html

[oxmixmudd]

In 3 to 4 days, the USA will cross the 100,000 deaths from Covid-19. That is two to 3 times the number in a typical flu season, WITH social distancing measures in place, WITH concerted efforts to test and track cases that far exceed anything done during a typical flu season.

For the morons that can't count, that means the REAL mortality is nowhere near the .1% of the flu. In most countries, fatalities rates are between 2 and 6% depending on the amount of testing. Current estimate put fully asymptomatics at 20%

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...-fatality.html

And some estimates of the true rate of infection to the fully diagnosed cases are as high as 10 to 1. That being the case, the covid TRUE fatality rate is somewhere between .5% and 2%, or 5 to 20X that of the flu.

Regardless, we do know that in the US, the overall fatality rate for diagnosed patients is around 6%. And we have 1,222,458 cases still awaiting final outcome. That means we are looking at AT LEAST another 60 to 70,000 deaths, and we are still on the rise in terms of total number of cases, to the tune of 20,000+ per day, with over 1000 new deaths per day.

Not that the morons that can't count will be persuaded by these simple facts.

[oxmixmudd]

Oh - and by the way. Did anyone notice that during the stay at home/shelter in place the number of active shooters seemed to die down?

Well guess what, with the 'reopening' THEY"RE BAAAACCKKK!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/us/na...own/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/we...ing/index.html


(looking at the active shooter database, this may just be a reporting artifact, there seem to have been plenty of shootings during this time)


https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/r...hooting?page=2


(I wonder how many will never read the last two lines)

[carpedm9587]

What one? 25-50 percent of people have little to no symptoms after two weeks? We know they exist because several passengers in the Royal Princess tested positive, but had no symptoms after two weeks (around 17%, as I recall). A troubling finding, if the goal is to stop or slow down the spread.

Again, can you provide a source for your numbers, both in this post and the last. I'm looking to confirm them. If you are citing statistics, I assume you have a source?

Too bad my attack is focused on forever lockdowns.

Reality - you can’t keep everyone locked away forever. Sooner or later, the problems lockdowns cause surpasses the problems not locking down does. Considering the rising unemployment, rising cost of food, rising cases of homelessness, rising failure of small business, stress on the supply chain, etc. We’re reaching that point already.

I disagreed with this where? What we’re lacking is leadership alright, many governors are screwing up badly and extending lockdowns for months on end.

Attack? I tend to prefer a discussion/debate. And just exactly who are you "attacking?" I don't know a single person who has proposed or defended "forever lockdowns," which rather makes most of this response moot.

Do you include Democrats in your assessment too?

I include anyone in or out of politics, without regard to party, that is pushing forward an agenda that does not factor in both the data and its limitations (or selective chooses the data they wish to emphasize) and instead pushes forward an agenda based on partisan politics. That approach is killing, and will continue to kill, people.

[Zara]

And that doesn’t tell me the age breakdown. Are younger people getting it at the same rate, but being asymptomatic or have less severe symptoms? That’s an important detail to know because most of the lab confirmed cases come from those over 65, with 88% confirmed cases being over 55 and 93% of all deaths are 55 or older. Other countries show a similar pattern, so we really need to know the age group breakdown.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...nd-S/9bhg-hcku

Another study, just in. 7.8% of a random group of people in Stockholm have Covid antibodies as of the end of April. Across Sweden as a whole, the largest group with antibodies were those aged 20-64 at 6.7% while those over 65 stood at 2.7%. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...es-sweden.html

This should come as no surprise.

So, a large proportion of Sweden hasn't yet been infected and a large proportion of people have already died.

[oxmixmudd]

Another study, just in. 7.8% of a random group of people in Stockholm have Covid antibodies as of the end of April. Across Sweden as a whole, the largest group with antibodies were those aged 20-64 at 6.7% while those over 65 stood at 2.7%. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...es-sweden.html

This should come as no surprise.

So, a large proportion of Sweden hasn't yet been infected and a large proportion of people have already died.

The tendency on the denial side is to overestimate the percentage of asymptomatic cases. This reduces the calculated mortality and gives them a reason to claim the US or the world is 'overreacting'

[lilpixieofterror]

Another study, just in. 7.8% of a random group of people in Stockholm have Covid antibodies as of the end of April. Across Sweden as a whole, the largest group with antibodies were those aged 20-64 at 6.7% while those over 65 stood at 2.7%. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-...es-sweden.html

This should come as no surprise.

So, a large proportion of Sweden hasn't yet been infected and a large proportion of people have already died.

Do the math yourself

Sweden population - 10 million
Sweden total deaths - 3,871
Infection rate - 7.8% (780,000)
Death rate - .49%

Deadlier than the typical flu? Yes, as deadly as the Spanish Flu? No.