Coronavirus Outbreak...

[lilpixieofterror]

No apology intended. And no blaming others either. You see, you once again deliberately took a sentence out of context. The rest of the paragraph continued: "Then I hate myself for it, recognizing it for the failing in me that it is."

How you can be so dishonest, yet claim the banner "Christian" is beyond me. But hey, if it's good enough for Trump...

Classic gaslighting and blaming others, for your own actions.

[Watermelon]

You do realize that the president doesn't actually have the Constitutional authority to do that, right? It would be such a gross overreach of federal authority that it boggles the mind you would even suggest it.

So, yes, you are blatantly contradicting yourself when you cry about Trump acting like a dictator and then cry when he doesn't act like one.

National Emergencies Act

Why can’t trump do anything right?

He acts like a dictator until it’s a national emergency which is the only time he could be expected or at least excused for acting like a dictator.

[lilpixieofterror]

National Emergencies Act

Why can’t trump do anything right?

He acts like a dictator until it’s a national emergency which is the only time he could be expected or at least excused for acting like a dictator.

“Trump is acting like a dictator, but is not taking advantage of a crisis to become one. It makes perfect sense, if you don’t think about it!”

[Watermelon]

How about the fact there are too many unknowns about it still? Yet you want get a prez you absolutely detest all authoritarian regardless. Not even the most avid pro-Trump crowd in here are pushing that.

Pushing for emergency powers? I thought everyone was pushing for it. I thought he had already declared a national emergency.

If he hasn’t then what’s he waiting for?

[seanD]

Pushing for emergency powers? I thought everyone was pushing for it. I thought he had already declared a national emergency.

If he hasn’t then what’s he waiting for?

MM just explained it to you, twice.

[Watermelon]

“Trump is acting like a dictator, but is not taking advantage of a crisis to become one. It makes perfect sense, if you don’t think about it!”

That was literally the whole purpose of a dictator. It was the temporary appointment of absolute power during times of crisis to act accordingly without restrictions or delays.

[Watermelon]

MM just explained it to you, twice.

What’s the hold up? Surely this is more of a national emergency then that invasion of that caravan of Mexicans.

[lilpixieofterror]

That was literally the whole purpose of a dictator. It was the temporary appointment of absolute power during times of crisis to act accordingly without restrictions or delays.

And as I recall, The Roman Republic fell centuries before the empire did. If Trump wanted to be a dictator, this is the chance to do it, yet he isn’t.

[little_monkey]

I absolutely agree. My observation was, at a minimum, if a state is not taking precautions to staunch the spread of the virus, Trump could basically quarantine that entire state - no travel to/from until they show zero infections or put in place constraints.

I don't think he needs to do that. Just a phone call to the recalcitrant governors, what... about 8 of them, and tell them to get on board. As president, he's got leverage just by being the president. Second, coordination and communication are more effective than do-it-alone - an argument he surely has used on other occasions. Third, he can direct the flow of goods, and those states could get passed out if not in tune with the rest of the country. I'm sure he can muster other reasons to get his point across. Like I said before, it's a question of leadership, and you show it on difficult situations and trying times.

[Watermelon]

And as I recall, The Roman Republic fell centuries before the empire did. If Trump wanted to be a dictator, this is the chance to do it, yet he isn’t.

Yeah it republic became the empire.

It’s not about being a dictator or not! It’s about effectively using the powers available to him when it’s required. He saw it fit to use the very same powers to direct funding for his wall, he should use it now to get the states their ventilators.

[JimL]

It's how our country operates. The federal government has limited power, and the individual states have autonomy. It's basically the model the Europeam Union is based on but without success, partly because they didn't build in those necessary limits.

He doesn't have to have the actual authority, he has the bully pulpit and those red state governors who bend the knee to him would likely do what he suggested. He is suggesting the opposite, still implying it's not that serious and that states should do as they please. It's called leadership, and he is failing at it.

[carpedm9587]

So this is a tangent to this thread, and I'm not going to engage in a back and forth about it, but OBP's post and my response has been rumbling around in my head as I clean the garage and prepare for tomorrow's trip. On December 9th, 2018, my two sons got into a fight that escalated more than it should have and ended up with one of them at the emergency room to get a badly bruised and possibly broken arm looked at. My wife and I were traveling at the time and I reacted to the call and the news by first addressing the immediate need, and then going down to the bar and getting drunk. I was so drunk that I apparently came back to the room and passed out on the bathroom floor. The entire event from going down to the bar until I awoke the next morning in my bed is not in my memories - so I had a blackout. My wife told me all that happened rather matter-of-factly and without accusation. On December 10th, I made the decision that I was abusing alcohol and it had to stop. I did not, and frankly do not, know if I was/am an alcoholic, but I had no desire to do the "AA" thing. So I told my wife I would stop drinking completely - no exceptions - and if I failed to keep that promise to myself, I would start a formal recovery process. I've been sober since and it frankly has not been a major effort.

It dawns on me that I have a similar problem with respect to trolling. Responding to trolls is a form of addiction. Not being able to resist correcting a misrepresentation or outright lie (and some do it so frequently I no longer think it is unintentional) is a form of pride and is also a form of addiction. I am clearly capable of trolling, given that is what I was doing to MM for several pages in this very thread. And I do not enjoy that part of me anymore than I enjoy the part of me that is capable of getting blindingly drunk.

So I'm going to make the same commitment now that I made to my wife. I'm going to stop responding to trolls, lies, and misrepresentation, and keep the conversation about the issues. While it is tempting to simply identify individuals that it is no longer worth responding to, people are not bottles of booze. The alcohol never changes - but people can and I'd like to think everyone is capable of changing their behavior. So I'm not going to avoid anyone who trolls - I simply am not going to respond to any post that has elected to take the insulting, condescending, name-calling, trolling, personal-attack path and will limit myself to those interested in serious discussions about the issues.

And as with the alcohol - if I cannot keep that promise, I'm going to admit that I cannot handle this place without devolving being a troll myself and bid ya'll goodbye.

Let's see if that sticks as well as the commitment to stop drinking.

[seanD]

So this is a tangent to this thread, and I'm not going to engage in a back and forth about it, but OBP's post and my response has been rumbling around in my head as I clean the garage and prepare for tomorrow's trip. On December 9th, 2018, my two sons got into a fight that escalated more than it should have and ended up with one of them at the emergency room to get a badly bruised and possibly broken arm looked at. My wife and I were traveling at the time and I reacted to the call and the news by first addressing the immediate need, and then going down to the bar and getting drunk. I was so drunk that I apparently came back to the room and passed out on the bathroom floor. The entire event from going down to the bar until I awoke the next morning in my bed is not in my memories - so I had a blackout. My wife told me all that happened rather matter-of-factly and without accusation. On December 10th, I made the decision that I was abusing alcohol and it had to stop. I did not, and frankly do not, know if I was/am an alcoholic, but I had no desire to do the "AA" thing. So I told my wife I would stop drinking completely - no exceptions - and if I failed to keep that promise to myself, I would start a formal recovery process. I've been sober since and it frankly has not been a major effort.

It dawns on me that I have a similar problem with respect to trolling. Responding to trolls is a form of addiction. Not being able to resist correcting a misrepresentation or outright lie (and some do it so frequently I no longer think it is unintentional) is a form of pride and is also a form of addiction. I am clearly capable of trolling, given that is what I was doing to MM for several pages in this very thread. And I do not enjoy that part of me anymore than I enjoy the part of me that is capable of getting blindingly drunk.

So I'm going to make the same commitment now that I made to my wife. I'm going to stop responding to trolls, lies, and misrepresentation, and keep the conversation about the issues. While it is tempting to simply identify individuals that it is no longer worth responding to, people are not bottles of booze. The alcohol never changes - but people can and I'd like to think everyone is capable of changing their behavior. So I'm not going to avoid anyone who trolls - I simply am not going to respond to any post that has elected to take the insulting, condescending, name-calling, trolling, personal-attack path and will limit myself to those interested in serious discussions about the issues.

And as with the alcohol - if I cannot keep that promise, I'm going to admit that I cannot handle this place without devolving being a troll myself and bid ya'll goodbye.

Let's see if that sticks as well as the commitment to stop drinking.

No one's been "trolling" you or calling you names (other than MM changing your handle) for like the past few pages now. But nice touch changing the topics you can't answer by playing the sympathy card. You've got the playbook directive down solid.

[carpedm9587]

I don't think he needs to do that. Just a phone call to the recalcitrant governors, what... about 8 of them, and tell them to get on board. As president, he's got leverage just by being the president. Second, coordination and communication are more effective than do-it-alone - an argument he surely has used on other occasions. Third, he can direct the flow of goods, and those states could get passed out if not in tune with the rest of the country. I'm sure he can muster other reasons to get his point across. Like I said before, it's a question of leadership, and you show it on difficult situations and trying times.

Unfortunately, I don't think he is going to do that due to the likely election consequences. There is a strong "anti-government" sentiment in red states (in conservatism and the Republican party in general), and such a move on Trump's part risks alienating his base in those states. Trump is dead without his base, so he won't take that chance, whatever the consequences in terms of life may be.

And all appeals to the constitution are just fodder for his base. He has no respect for the constitution, as he has amply demonstrated on multiple occasions. What president has ever claimed that Article II grants them unlimited power? And impeachment is a constitutionally defined power - it's not a "coup." And Congress is granted the power and responsibility of oversight - yet he simply declares himself above it all repeatedly. No president has attacked the constitution via his words and actions more than Mr. Trump. He's a con man, and the fact that most of the Republican party has been successfully conned is a sad commentary on how far that party has fallen. I hope they relocate their souls someday.

[Mountain Man]

National Emergencies Act

Why can’t trump do anything right?

He acts like a dictator until it’s a national emergency which is the only time he could be expected or at least excused for acting like a dictator.

First of all, Trump does not act like a dictator. Not even close. It's a specious accusation.

Second, you seem to not understand exactly what the National Emergent Act is. It must be approved by Congress, it is limited, and it can not be used to suspend Constitutionally protected rights. For instance, Lincoln's decision to suspend habeas corpus during the Civil War was struck down by the Supreme Court (but he did it anyway), and

"Harry Truman declared the use of emergency powers in Executive Order 10340 when he seized private steel mills that failed to produce steel because of a labor strike in 1952. With the Korean War ongoing, Truman asserted that he could not wage war successfully if the economy failed to provide him with the material resources necessary to keep the troops well-equipped. The U.S. Supreme Court, however, rejected the argument in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, voting 6-3 that neither Commander in Chief powers nor any claimed emergency powers gave the President the authority to unilaterally seize private property without Congressional authority."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/emergency_powers

So even with a declaration of emergency powers, the president would not be within his Constitutional limits to suspend travel between states. Yet maniacs like carpe want him to do exactly that.