Coronavirus Outbreak...

[Mountain Man]

Disappointing. I was hoping your post would actually be good...

Whenever carpe says, "Last word to you!" and then he feels compelled to respond again, you know you've struck a nerve.

[carpedm9587]

Whenever carpe says, "Last word to you!" and then he feels compelled to respond again, you know you've struck a nerve.

MM, you are certainly predictable. I managed to keep you on the hook with the last exchange for quite a while, until you finally "jumped the hook." I even managed to goad you into giving me the same "name substitution" honor you give JimL. I have to give you credit - I am too lazy to work that hard. On the other hand, maybe you just have a macro to do it for you!

In short, I've been trolling you for pages now. But it's gotten old, predictable, and largely pointless. And I frankly don't enjoy the "trolling" as much as you apparently do. Id' rather have substantive conversations with people making rational arguments.

So I'm going to jump off myself (I'm sure I'll be told how you're the one whose been trolling me for pages now...), and focus my discussions on the issues. Some people bring out my ugly side - and you and Pix are definitely two of those people. Seer is borderline. He sometimes actually stays focused on the actual argument.

See ya...

[Mountain Man]

MM, you are certainly predictable. I managed to keep you on the hook with the last exchange for quite a while, until you finally "jumped the hook." I even managed to goad you into giving me the same "name substitution" honor you give JimL. I have to give you credit - I am too lazy to work that hard. On the other hand, maybe you just have a macro to do it for you!

In short, I've been trolling you for pages now. But it's gotten old, predictable, and largely pointless. And I frankly don't enjoy the "trolling" as much as you apparently do. Id' rather have substantive conversations with people making rational arguments.

So I'm going to jump off myself (I'm sure I'll be told how you're the one whose been trolling me for pages now...), and focus my discussions on the issues. Some people bring out my ugly side - and you and Pix are definitely two of those people. Seer is borderline. He sometimes actually stays focused on the actual argument.

See ya... :bye:

Sure, prig.

[Mountain Man]

In short, I've been trolling you for pages now.

Trollface_censored.jpg

[oxmixmudd]

Ox, you're simply too biased against Trump to be at all objective about him, therefore your conclusions above are not at all convincing to me. You always read the worst into whatever he says or does, you are ready to believe any and every negative report about him, thus your negative view of him is self-fulfilling and self-sustaining. You don't apply any critical assessment to news reports about Trump, nor do you exercise any principle of charity in regards to him.

Thus the 'data' you are using to make your assessment of him is corrupted and biased by your prejudice, since you accept every negative thing reported and disregard any positive or neutral interpretation of his words and acts. To sue a scietific metaphor, you are shaping the data to fit your hypothesis.

Max, I've praised Trump where he has acted responsibly and in concert with the advise of the medical experts that are advising him. One can not ignore his continued capacity to lie about what is going on, and to try to use public forums that are to address the problems we face as personal ego boost sessions. I'm interested in reality max. The bias driving me, is the bias that comes from having watched trump from day one of this situation lie about it and day by day through a very distinct combination of megalomania and ignorance lead us to the present disaster. And you need to stop trying to paint that reaction as based only on some unjustified hatred. The curves, the numbers, the lies, they are all out their for public view. Donald Trump was the one more worried about messing up his covid-19 stats than saving the lives of people stranded on a ship. And he is the one more concerned about whether or not governors praise his response than actually helping them deal with what is going on in their states.

That is just reality max. That is who he is. And that is why I don't like him. It has nothing to do with his hair color.

My view is that he is a typical loud-mouthed, boastful and somewhat arrogant New York business magnate, brash and overbearing in his speech. But once you look past that, he hasn't done too badly in many regards. Remember the dire predictions of pretty much immediate nuclear war with North Korea if he got elected? A close personal friend with some degree of knowledge in the field was very concerned about that... ... he didn't do too badly there, did he?

North Korea. You mean the place whose supreme leader is still developing long range missiles and testing them while the world is struggling with this pandemic? The fellow that basically took what Trump offered, laughed, and snubbed his nose at him after walking over him to get the world-wide recognition he wanted? that North Korea?

I have one suggestion for you - dig back on Scott Adam's (Dilbert cartoonist) blog for his posts leading up to the 2016 election. I found his insight and analysis into persuasion and deal-making techniques very insightful and helpful in understanding Trump. An example is this post, but please take the time to read others from that time period. Put simply, Trump is a very gifted persuader / deal-maker. A LOT of what he says and does is based off that paradigm. For example, he will say something 'out there' as a way of testing 'the market', or establishing a position when making a deal - his next move will be based off the reaction to that. If he's trying to get something done - negotiation a deal with opposing politicians or a bureaucracy - he will start with a high bid (something outrageous) to give himself room to be 'bargained down' to a deal he is actually happy with.

Trump would not be a Billionaire without some skills Max. But whatever books Trump has written on how to negotiate, he has lived out a sort of petty tit-for-tat where anyone and everyone that does not praise him constantly is eventually punished. Those that put truth over what Trump wants to hear almost always end up looking for new jobs. And Trumps negotiations - at least the ones I'm aware of - are abusive tweets degrading whoever it is that has dared to tell him what he wants to do is not the right thing to do.

But really, I don't have time or stomach for this. You need to move past your personal bias against me and look at the facts of this circumstance. Look at the log curve of cases in Korea and the log curve of cases in the US. THAT is the measure that shows just how much our government has bungled this. And then ask yourself who is it that has been instrumental from day one in pushing the government response the wrong direction. Those are objective questions with objective, non-partisan answers max. So look past 'me' and answer those questions in honesty to yourself.

The current government, from its leader to the republican party that yields to his every bad whim to any democrats playing political games with our government responses to the base that ignores reality in their rush to support him is the exact opposite of what we as a nation and a people need right now. We need a leader and a government grounded in REALITY, willing to work with those that are politically their enemies, willing to do whatever it takes to bring this nation through this at whatever personal cost - especially in terms of ego -that might be.

[One Bad Pig]

And now the US has many more cases than that, and 20,000 more every day. China isn't reporting any new cases, so I don't know what is really happening there. But figures for other countries suggest that the US is failing badly at containment.

Yes, because the US is leading in testing - that's how the cases are discovered - whereas China isn't reporting any new cases because they simply quit bothering to test for them. Great comparison you're making, there.

[oxmixmudd]

Yes, because the US is leading in testing - that's how the cases are discovered - whereas China isn't reporting any new cases because they simply quit bothering to test for them. Great comparison you're making, there.

actually, at least in the line you quoted. he isn't comparing the US to China. He is comparing it to the other free countries of the world.

[carpedm9587]

Yes, because the US is leading in testing - that's how the cases are discovered - whereas China isn't reporting any new cases because they simply quit bothering to test for them. Great comparison you're making, there.

The U.S. leads in testing by sheer numbers only, which is what Trump keeps harping on. But then again, we are the third most populous country in the world, so that stands to reason. We are significantly behind many other countries when testing is examined per capita, despite the fact that 84% of our population lives in urban areas where testing could be done more quickly, and it is those areas that are most at risk right now. That means a significant portion of the infected population is simply not detected, which increases the risk that they will, in turn, infect others. This is likely because the disease has an incubation period that ranges from a couple days to as many as 12-14 days, and has a non-zero incidence of asymptomatic infections.

And where does your information that China has stopped testing come from? I have not seen that information.

[Sparko]

No. And I strongly recommend you don't even BEGIN to try to compare Obama's golfing with Trump's. You'll lose on all counts.


Yours truly -

Carpe de Prig

He was talking DURING the swine flu outbreak. You were talking about how presidents act during such a crisis and expressed you couldn't imagine any other president acting as bad as Trump. So you don't think golfing while people are dying was as bad? Why not?

[Mountain Man]

He was talking DURING the swine flu outbreak. You were talking about how presidents act during such a crisis and expressed you couldn't imagine any other president acting as bad as Trump. So you don't think golfing while people are dying was as bad? Why not?

You won't get a straight answer since now he's claiming that he was being deliberately inconsistent in order to troll us. No, I don't buy it either.

[carpedm9587]

He was talking DURING the swine flu outbreak. You were talking about how presidents act during such a crisis and expressed you couldn't imagine any other president acting as bad as Trump. So you don't think golfing while people are dying was as bad? Why not?

Oh for pity's sake. You too?

During the swine flu outbreak - Obama golfed. During the current pandemic - Trump golfed. So what? I have no issue with either. Everyone needs a break from stress and work - even in times of crisis. The fact that some shallow people have decided to jump on what obviously is more an issue of optics doesn't make the issue important to me in the least. Oddly, folks who apparently find Obama's golfing repugnant STILL have not said anything about Trump's, so exactly who has the double standard here?

Separately, during the current pandemic, Trump bragged about his audience size for his briefings. He did so when visiting sick people in a hospital. On more than one occasion where empathy for people in distress would have been the norm - Trump was on about his crowd size and ratings. Ergo - I think he's a callous prig with no real concern for others and an ego he cannot get past. Show me any place where any prior president demonstrated that behavior - and I will find it equally repugnant - including Obama.

There has been no inconsistency in my posts related to this from the outset. "Narcissism" is not equal to "needing to take a break," though you folks are busily trying to equate them so as to create a false "double standard."

And that's the last time I explain it. If all ya'll don't get it, it has to be by intention at this point.

[Mountain Man]

You won't get a straight answer since now he's claiming that he was being deliberately inconsistent in order to troll us. No, I don't buy it either.

Oh for pity's sake. You too?

During the swine flu outbreak - Obama golfed. During the current pandemic - Trump golfed. So what? I have no issue with either. Everyone needs a break from stress and work - even in times of crisis. The fact that some shallow people have decided to jump on what obviously is more an issue of optics doesn't make the issue important to me in the least. Oddly, folks who apparently find Obama's golfing repugnant STILL have not said anything about Trump's, so exactly who has the double standard here?

Separately, during the current pandemic, Trump bragged about his audience size for his briefings. He did so when visiting sick people in a hospital. On more than one occasion where empathy for people in distress would have been the norm - Trump was on about his crowd size and ratings. Ergo - I think he's a callous prig with no real concern for others and an ego he cannot get past. Show me any place where any prior president demonstrated that behavior - and I will find it equally repugnant - including Obama.

There has been no inconsistency in my posts related to this from the outset. "Narcissism" is not equal to "needing to take a break," though you folks are busily trying to equate them so as to create a false "double standard."

And that's the last time I explain it. If all ya'll don't get it, it has to be by intention at this point.

I called it.

[One Bad Pig]

MM, you are certainly predictable. I managed to keep you on the hook with the last exchange for quite a while, until you finally "jumped the hook." I even managed to goad you into giving me the same "name substitution" honor you give JimL. I have to give you credit - I am too lazy to work that hard. On the other hand, maybe you just have a macro to do it for you!

In short, I've been trolling you for pages now. But it's gotten old, predictable, and largely pointless. And I frankly don't enjoy the "trolling" as much as you apparently do. Id' rather have substantive conversations with people making rational arguments.

So I'm going to jump off myself (I'm sure I'll be told how you're the one whose been trolling me for pages now...), and focus my discussions on the issues. Some people bring out my ugly side - and you and Pix are definitely two of those people. Seer is borderline. He sometimes actually stays focused on the actual argument.

See ya...

I hate to break it to you, but your "trolling" is indistinguishable from your typical posting style.

[One Bad Pig]

The U.S. leads in testing by sheer numbers only, which is what Trump keeps harping on. But then again, we are the third most populous country in the world, so that stands to reason. We are significantly behind many other countries when testing is examined per capita, despite the fact that 84% of our population lives in urban areas where testing could be done more quickly, and it is those areas that are most at risk right now. That means a significant portion of the infected population is simply not detected, which increases the risk that they will, in turn, infect others. This is likely because the disease has an incubation period that ranges from a couple days to as many as 12-14 days, and has a non-zero incidence of asymptomatic infections.

Part of the reason we're "behind" per capita is because we declined to uncritically accept kits from China and developed our own instead. Our rate of increase in testing since then easily outstrips everyone else.

And where does your information that China has stopped testing come from? I have not seen that information.

here.

[Sparko]

You won't get a straight answer since now he's claiming that he was being deliberately inconsistent in order to troll us. No, I don't buy it either.

me either. He is just using his normal double standard while refusing to admit it. Trying to get Carp to admit anything is like nailing smoke to the wall.