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  • Federal Defense Production Act ..... needed now.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are

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    • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
      Federal Defense Production Act ..... needed now.
      I have mixed feelings on the need for that. Would it necessarily make any difference? Every company able to manufacture those is doing it. Manufacturers have noted that there is no magic bullet to get more machines, some parts of the supply chain need lead time. Ford and countless machine shops can produce the sheet metal parts needed, electronics need to come from somewhere else. If remediation efforts work to drop the spread of the disease (the first line of defense), then the ventilators are not needed. Ventilators are needed because remediation efforts have failed.

      One thing few have commented on is just what the impact of sending the ventilators out of the stockpile would be. Would the malpractice lawyers take a knee after this is done and over with? We will have nurses on new machines that they are unfamiliar with, and little time for practical teaching on the different brand of machine. The need to work extended hours has not shielded health care workers in the past from lawsuits.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        Coronavirus cases are mostly located in the larger cities, Carp.
        I have no idea what that has to do with my post. 60% of China is urban so they have almost 3 times as many people in cities as we do. 34% of India is urban, so they have more people in cities than we have in our entire population.

        If your point is NY has more because of NYC, there is some truth to that because NYC has the highest density of any American city, but it is not enough to explain the differentials. We have many other cities with densities nearly as high and not reporting the same numbers. Two other factors are at work: NY is testing more than any other state and NYC is not only an international travel hub but also an international travel destination. But I suspect we will see flare ups in every other major U.S. city. They are just behind NYC's curve.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
          I have mixed feelings on the need for that. Would it necessarily make any difference? Every company able to manufacture those is doing it. Manufacturers have noted that there is no magic bullet to get more machines, some parts of the supply chain need lead time. Ford and countless machine shops can produce the sheet metal parts needed, electronics need to come from somewhere else. If remediation efforts work to drop the spread of the disease (the first line of defense), then the ventilators are not needed. Ventilators are needed because remediation efforts have failed.

          One thing few have commented on is just what the impact of sending the ventilators out of the stockpile would be. Would the malpractice lawyers take a knee after this is done and over with? We will have nurses on new machines that they are unfamiliar with, and little time for practical teaching on the different brand of machine. The need to work extended hours has not shielded health care workers in the past from lawsuits.
          We lost precious time with all of Trump's posturing and now his delay in enacting it. The Defense Production Act is not just limited to businesses that already produce what is needed, but can also be used for businesses that could be retooled quickly to produce the needed materials, and even the expansion of existing businesses. Basically, anything that is needed to deal with the crisis.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            I have no idea what that has to do with my post. 60% of China is urban so they have almost 3 times as many people in cities as we do. 34% of India is urban, so they have more people in cities than we have in our entire population.

            If your point is NY has more because of NYC, there is some truth to that because NYC has the highest density of any American city, but it is not enough to explain the differentials. We have many other cities with densities nearly as high and not reporting the same numbers. Two other factors are at work: NY is testing more than any other state and NYC is not only an international travel hub but also an international travel destination. But I suspect we will see flare ups in every other major U.S. city. They are just behind NYC's curve.
            Which is a point. Cuomo has been making in his pleas for the fed's to act.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              Which is a point. Cuomo has been making in his pleas for the fed's to act.
              The failure to actually USE the Defense Production Act means long term shortages of critical PPE needs. He cannot say "do it" and expect it will be done in a matter of hours. It takes time to spin up production and retool. Companies that are producing on one shift need to hire and train to staff three shifts. Companies with comparable products need to retool to produce the required items. Supply chains need to be adjusted. All of that takes time and time is our enemy with this enemy.

              Meanwhile, the messaging continues to be "we need to get back to work."

              If the numbers end up low, I will be more than happy to cheer and admit I over-reacted. If the numbers end up where you and I are predicting, I have to wonder if all of the "chicken little" posters will acknowledge that their predictions were wrong and this crisis was mismanaged? My guess is, the narrative will change to "nobody could have done it better, it was just a devastating virus."
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                when the msm takes Trumps words out of context it is the MSM who is trying to make him look bad and the majority of Americans are seeing them for what they do and are try taking those orangeman bad colored glasses off so you can see the truth.
                No. Just Trump's words are sufficient:

                FEB 24
                “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock market starting to look very good to me”
                — Donald Trump
                FEB 25
                “You may ask about the coronavirus, which is very well under control in our country. We have very few people with it, and the people that have it are … getting better. They’re all getting better. … As far as what we’re doing with the new virus, I think that we’re doing a great job.”
                — Donald Trump
                FEB 26
                “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."
                — Donald Trump
                FEB 28
                “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
                — Donald Trump
                MARCH 2
                "We had a great meeting today with a lot of the great companies and they're going to have vaccines, I think relatively soon.”
                — Donald Trump
                MARCH 9
                “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on.”
                — Donald Trump
                MARCH 12
                “It’s going to go away. ... The United States, because of what I did and what the administration did with China, we have 32 deaths at this point … when you look at the kind of numbers that you’re seeing coming out of other countries, it’s pretty amazing when you think of it.”
                — Donald Trump
                Just a tidbit:
                If one person is infected - tested positive - but was not isolated, that person will have infected over 15,000 people in 14 days, the number of days it takes between being infected and showing symptoms. Meaning the longer it takes to shutdown the country, the more infections you will get, and harder to stop it. Italy failed to do so, and we know what's happening there. The US will be even worse as there is no leadership on stopping this disease.

                Comment


                • It looks like Boris Johnson has joined Prince Charles in testing positive for coronavirus

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                    Yes, but there are enough cases now in smaller cities and rural areas that each county (I think, couldn't find county stats) is effectively "seeded".

                    We have become the world's leader in number of cases, beating out the Chicoms.
                    No we haven’t. Try per million population.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I have no idea what that has to do with my post. 60% of China is urban so they have almost 3 times as many people in cities as we do. 34% of India is urban, so they have more people in cities than we have in our entire population.
                      And has the US locked you away in your house, welding the door shut, to keep you in? Likewise, India is pretty hot right now. This disease doesn’t like hot weather and will likely start to die down, in America, as summer hits. Again, facts and details matter.

                      If your point is NY has more because of NYC, there is some truth to that because NYC has the highest density of any American city, but it is not enough to explain the differentials. We have many other cities with densities nearly as high and not reporting the same numbers. Two other factors are at work: NY is testing more than any other state and NYC is not only an international travel hub but also an international travel destination. But I suspect we will see flare ups in every other major U.S. city. They are just behind NYC's curve.
                      When you factor in:

                      Behavioral differences between countries.
                      Weather patterns.
                      How extreme governments are going.

                      It makes sense. Details do matter.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        And has the US locked you away in your house, welding the door shut, to keep you in? Likewise, India is pretty hot right now. This disease doesn’t like hot weather and will likely start to die down, in America, as summer hits. Again, facts and details matter.

                        When you factor in:

                        Behavioral differences between countries.
                        Weather patterns.
                        How extreme governments are going.

                        It makes sense. Details do matter.
                        What exactly is it you think "makes sense?" Are you trying to explain away why we have 4.5% of the world's population and 15+% of the infections?
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          What exactly is it you think "makes sense?" Are you trying to explain away why we have 4.5% of the world's population and 15+% of the infections?
                          This disease spreads much poorer, the warmer the climate Carp. It came from China and spread world wide, so it doesn’t matter what country has the largest population. These details matter:

                          1. Poorer countries have fewer international travelers.
                          2. India is pretty warm right now. This virus doesn’t like warm temps.
                          3. Our A/C and temp controlled buildings are conditions the virus loves.
                          4. Our per 1M infection figures are well below much of Europe.
                          5. We have Americans licking toilet seats, partying without a care in the world, and generally not caring who they get sick.

                          Again, details matter.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            No we haven’t. Try per million population.
                            Actually - you're both right. We have become the world leader in terms of number of cases, which is what he said.

                            In terms of infections per million, I looked at the 12 countries with the most infections (Austria, China, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, Netherlands, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, U.S., and the UK) as well as the aggregate for the world.

                            For infections per million the order is (worst to best): Switzerland, Spain, Italy, Austria, Germany, France, Netherlands, Iran, U.S., South Korea, UK, World, China. The world average is 72.76 infections per million. Switzerland is at 1,436.52/million. The U.S. is at 262.87/million. That means we are at 3.6 times the world average, but better than at least 8 countries. Of course, most of these countries are ahead of us in terms of testing, so we don't know how that is impacting the distribution.

                            For deaths per million the order is (worst to best): Italy, Spain, Iran, France, Netherlands, Switzerland, UK, Austria, U.S., Germany, World, South Korea, China. The world average is 3.29 deaths per million. Italy is at 135.67/million. The U.S. is at 3.98/million. We are 1.2 times the world average, but better than at least 8 countries. The testing issue is irrelevant to this order.

                            And we are way behind both India and China, though the China numbers may not be accurate.
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              This disease spreads much poorer, the warmer the climate Carp. It came from China and spread world wide, so it doesn’t matter what country has the largest population. These details matter:

                              1. Poorer countries have fewer international travelers.
                              2. India is pretty warm right now. This virus doesn’t like warm temps.
                              3. Our A/C and temp controlled buildings are conditions the virus loves.
                              4. Our per 1M infection figures are well below much of Europe.
                              5. We have Americans licking toilet seats, partying without a care in the world, and generally not caring who they get sick.

                              Again, details matter.
                              Wow...amazing list. Pix, as best I can tell you are picking and choosing your facts, excluding anything that might cast a poor light on Trump. First, every country in the world is poorer than the U.S., but there is incredible tourism and business travel everywhere. Indeed, if you looked at the stats per million, as you did in your previous posts, the percent of visitors per capita is the highest in some amazingly small countries, not to mention many European countries. I would like to see your source for "the virus doesn't like warm temperatures." This is not the flu, it is a novel coronavirus, and I am not familiar with any study that shows this to be true (though it may be). We are certainly not the only country with major cities and temperature-controlled buildings. Indeed, that is the norm for every major city in the world that I am familiar with. And do you seriously think the U.S. is the only place where people are ignoring the warnings and acting stupidly?

                              The only thing on your list that is known to be true is #4. And your list excludes:

                              1. U.S. leadership has been (and continues) to downplay the urgency of the virus
                              2. U.S. testing is significantly behind many other countries, and those countries with extensive testing/tracking are showing significantly lower deaths/million than the U.S. (see South Korea and Germany). They are also showing higher percentages of infection, but that is very likely due to the fact that they are actively looking for them, so their numbers are better. We see the same phenomenon happening in the U.S. when you compare what New York is doing compared to other states.

                              In addition, the U.S. has taken little action to ensure the availability of PPE and other medical resources, virtually ensuring that we will hit a saturation point where healthcare resources will be saturated.

                              In a nutshell - bad mismanagement is exacerbating the U.S. problem, which is growing worse at an exponential rate greater than the world average.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Actually - you're both right. We have become the world leader in terms of number of cases, which is what he said.
                                What number matters more?

                                In terms of infections per million, I looked at the 12 countries with the most infections (Austria, China, France, Germany, Iran, Italy, Netherlands, South Korea, Spain, Switzerland, U.S., and the UK) as well as the aggregate for the world.

                                For infections per million the order is (worst to best): Switzerland, Spain, Italy, Austria, Germany, France, Netherlands, Iran, U.S., South Korea, UK, World, China. The world average is 72.76 infections per million. Switzerland is at 1,436.52/million. The U.S. is at 262.87/million. That means we are at 3.6 times the world average, but better than at least 8 countries. Of course, most of these countries are ahead of us in terms of testing, so we don't know how that is impacting the distribution.

                                For deaths per million the order is (worst to best): Italy, Spain, Iran, France, Netherlands, Switzerland, UK, Austria, U.S., Germany, World, South Korea, China. The world average is 3.29 deaths per million. Italy is at 135.67/million. The U.S. is at 3.98/million. We are 1.2 times the world average, but better than at least 8 countries. The testing issue is irrelevant to this order.

                                And we are way behind both India and China, though the China numbers may not be accurate.
                                So if we are doing roughly on par, with most other countries, why mislead with ‘we’re number one’ to make it sound as though everything is falling apart?
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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