Coronavirus Outbreak...

[Mountain Man]

I had that. Hit me like Mjolnir on Dec. 28 after being around hacking, sneezing relatives on Christmas. Flattened me pretty totally for most of January and I was still way below normal for most of February. Worst cough ever. Literally scary, since I live alone; there were a few times I briefly couldn't get any air and things went black momentarily. Worst sore throat ever. Achy (It literally felt like my hair hurt. I get that feeling when I'm really sick.) Exhausted and listless. I often slept 16 hours a day. Fevers (low and only for a few days) and chills.

The loss of appetite was particularly notable, since one of my quirks is that I usually get an increased appetite when I have a cold or flu. I lost 10-15 pounds in six weeks.

I still have what feels like irritation to my glottis from the violence of the coughing. (I still have a cough, but I've had an allergy-related dry cough for over 20 years, and it got worse after I started on Lisinopril several months ago -- infamous side-effect.)

Really don't know whether it was Kung Flu or a really bad "regular" flu.

My parents talked about being knocked down by a nasty flu earlier this year. I don't know all the symptoms, but they mentioned how they had zero energy to do anything. I wonder...

[Mountain Man]

I think you're splitting hairs unnecessarily. It is common for a new illness to put someone who has pre-existing conditions "over the top." I don't see why it is necessary to try to parse out exactly which illness killed them. Ultimately, in the grand scheme of the numbers, it seems likely that this distinction will likely be nothing more than minor noise in the data.

I'm just telling you what Professor Walter Ricciardi has said. You can argue with me all you want, but it won't change his assessment.

[carpedm9587]

I'm just telling you what Professor Walter Ricciardi has said. You can argue with me all you want, but it won't change his assessment.

I'm not trying to. I'm pointing out that he is one voice, his assessment doesn't make an enormous amount of sense to me, and I think the point is a trivial issue in the larger expanse of the incoming data.

By way of example, my father died from pulmonary fibrosis. Ultimately, his lungs grew more and more fibrous and he could not process adequate oxygen to meet the needs of his body. If he had contracted coronavirus anytime in his last year, I suspect it would have hastened his death. Should he be counted as one of those who died as a result of coronavirus or as a result of pulmonary fibrosis? AFAICT, no definitive answer to that question is possible. Without the pulmonary fibrosis, he might have survived the coronavirus. Without the coronavirus, he might have survived longer.

The point is that, like the flu, this disease kills the weak, old, and compromised at a higher rate than the young and healthy. So with all due respect to Ricciardi, I don't find his assessment compelling or even all that important.

[carpedm9587]

I'm pretty sure this will get the usual dismissal on the basis of the genetic fallacy, but it appears intelligence agencies were warning about this outbreak way before Trump took any action, and were ignored or dismissed, costing us precious weeks during which the coronavirus spread largely unchecked. Schools in our area closed this past Wednesday, almost two months after the first reported case. Until three weeks ago, very little was being done to encourage enhanced sanitation and social distancing within those schools because no one was really all that concerned. Why would they be, when the person occupying the white house was telling everyone "it was under control" and downplaying the pandemic.

We need to be rid of this man. As Rogue has said many times, "orange man bad!"

(and yeah, I know that quote is taken out of context, but that seems to be de rigueur around here).

[rogue06]

My parents talked about being knocked down by a nasty flu earlier this year. I don't know all the symptoms, but they mentioned how they had zero energy to do anything. I wonder...

The earlier in the year it was the more likely it was the flu.

[Mountain Man]

I'm pointing out that he is one voice...

A voice presumably speaking with knowledge and authority, which, I think, carries more weight than your characteristic dismissive hand wave of anything that doesn't fit your preferred narrative.

[Mountain Man]

... it appears intelligence agencies were warning about this outbreak way before Trump took any action...

False.

From your source: "U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus..."

Trump issued the first Chinese travel ban in late January, so right around the time he would have been getting a heads-up from intelligence agencies, a decision that was blasted by Democrats and their media allies as racist and xenophobic.

[carpedm9587]

False.

From your source: "U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus..."

Trump issued the first Chinese travel ban in late January, so right around the time he would have been getting a heads-up from intelligence agencies, a decision that was blasted by Democrats and their media allies as racist and xenophobic.

The details of what Mr. Trump did on January 31 can be found here. Note that January 31 is a full two weeks after the first case in the U.S. and well after the China situation was clarifying and it was clear cases were showing up in many countries around the world. This is what is being referred to as "precious time being lost."

Further, this one act was pretty much it as Trump continually claimed, over and over, that "it was under control" and even rejected the idea that it was a "pandemic."

This "Trump was on top of it" narrative is simply not supported by the facts. If you think it is, there's a simple solution to the disagreement. Simply provide a list of all of the steps Trump took from the time the virus emerged, especially from the time it emerged on U.S. soil. I think you will find that the timeline skews to the late February and even March time-frame for most actions taken. But, if you think otherwise, let's see the list.

ETA: I'm guessing no such list will be forthcoming.

[carpedm9587]

A voice presumably speaking with knowledge and authority, which, I think, carries more weight than your characteristic dismissive hand wave of anything that doesn't fit your preferred narrative.

Your opinion is duly noted. Thanks for the post.

[RumTumTugger]

As for what I would have done...there are several things:

• Been honest from the outset with the American people about the severity of the virus.
• Directed the CDC to validate the German protocols and clear state labs to develop tests as soon as he WHO declared a global pandemic.
• I would never have allowed the global health response team within the NSC to be disbanded, not in the age of global travel and the new array of viruses we have been seeing. The last pandemic was only 10 years ago.
• Brought governors and the mayors of major cities into the loop at the outset, especially those with detected infections, to get action going at the state level as quickly as possible.
• Identified supply gaps, invoked the Defense Production Act, and actually acted on it as soon as the gaps were identified. We have known that hand sanitizer, masks, and ventilators (to name a few things) were likely to be in short supply for weeks now.
• Instructed my entire cabinet and congressional leaders (which have required actually meeting with them) to get on the same page and push the social-distancing and hand-washing message everywhere and consistently, instead of the garbled messaging from such characters as Nunes, Pence, Carson, and Trump himself, to name a few.
• Adopted a "the buck stops here" posture - it is the mark of a leader who is taking charge. "Not my fault" is the whine of a toddler.
• Used a declaration of national emergency to ensure that ALL tests would be free to those taking them. At present, they are only free to those with insurance, AFAIK.

I could continue, but I'm pretty sure all of this will be dismissed as "Monday morning quarterbacking." However, we had leaders calling for such actions weeks ago. Unfortunately, most of them held the title "Democrat," so we certainly wouldn't want to actually do something the opposing side is calling for, right?

Our national polarization is resulting in unnecessary deaths.

I asked what you would have done differently.

Trump did and has

• Been honest from the outset with the American people about the severity of the virus. Given what information we had at the time due to China lying to us for months he was giving us what he knew trying to make sure that there was no panic. The China government still isn't being honest with us.
• Brought governors and the mayors of major cities into the loop at the outset, especially those with detected infections, to get action going at the state level as quickly as possible. He did do that all that including keeping them in the loop, the Democrat Governor of my State Governor Newsom gave him praise for it California is one of the states that has detected infections.
• Identified supply gaps, invoked the Defense Production Act, and actually acted on it as soon as the gaps were identified. We have known that hand sanitizer, masks, and ventilators (to name a few things) were likely to be in short supply for weeks now. He did identify the supply gaps and before invoking the Defense production Act got together with the private sector to see how they could handle this emergency and got results from that. You are complaining because he didn't immediately act like the Dictator you assume he is.
• Instructed my entire cabinet and congressional leaders (which have required actually meeting with them) to get on the same page and push the social-distancing and hand-washing message everywhere and consistently, instead of the garbled messaging from such characters as Nunes, Pence, Carson, and Trump himself, to name a few. it is news to me that they haven't been pushing the social distancing and hand-washing etc and as for supposed garbled messaging I suspect it is the usual suspects in the media taking things out of context in order to keep their false narrative of orangeman bad going.

as for

• Directed the CDC to validate the German protocols and clear state labs to develop tests as soon as he WHO declared a global pandemic. I'll give you that ok so you would have micromanaged things I get it. and are again complain about Trump not acting like the dictator you assume he is.
• I would never have allowed the global health response team within the NSC to be disbanded, not in the age of global travel and the new array of viruses we have been seeing. The last pandemic was only 10 years ago. No he did not Disband the NSC Global health response team he moved them to a different department keeping them at the ready in order that they would not be sitting there doing nothing. they were there and ready to be used when this hit.
• Adopted a "the buck stops here" posture - it is the mark of a leader who is taking charge. "Not my fault" is the whine of a toddler. Sorry it is China who lied for months and is still lying to detract from their responsibility. Trump was just telling the truth about their lack of candor about the virus months ago and you can't handle truth can you
• Used a declaration of national emergency to ensure that ALL tests would be free to those taking them. At present, they are only free to those with insurance, AFAIK. hmm maybe because it is not needed I've been seeing tweets and others news that shows that there are those in the private sector willing to do just that. You are still complaining because Trump is not acting like the Dictator you assume him to be.

I could continue, but I'm pretty sure all of this will be dismissed as "Monday morning quarterbacking." However, we had leaders calling for such actions weeks ago. Unfortunately, most of them held the title "Democrat," so we certainly wouldn't want to actually do something the opposing side is calling for, right?

You mean the same Democrats that said his travel ban on those coming from China was not necessary? You mean the same Democrats that complained about the Task force Trump put in place on January 28th before the 2 days January 30th WHO global pandemic announcement because it was not diverse enough. You mean Democrat Joe Biden the democrat who listed everything Trump was doing at the time and said that is what he would do except for closing the borders when he was asked what he would do? give me a break the Democrats weren't calling for the actions Trump took weeks before he did them they were decrying him for taking the virus seriously enough to try and get ahead of it to bad the Chicoms lied for months before that January 30th WHO announcement when it would have done some good.

[demi-conservative]

The details of what Mr. Trump did on January 31 can be found here. Note that January 31 is a full two weeks after the first case in the U.S. and well after the China situation was clarifying and it was clear cases were showing up in many countries around the world. This is what is being referred to as "precious time being lost."

Jan 31 was one day after the WHO declared a global emergency. If Trump had done it earlier, people as moronic as yourself would have yelled racist and gotten some obscure judge to block a travel ban.

[seanD]

My boy Rand just contracted it

[Mountain Man]

Jan 31 was one day after the WHO declared a global emergency. If Trump had done it earlier, people as moronic as yourself would have yelled racist and gotten some obscure judge to block a travel ban.

There's nothing Trump could have done that people like carpe and oxmixmudd wouldn't have faulted him for. It's a classic case of "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't".

[demi-conservative]

My boy Rand just contracted it

He's asymptomatic, which is good. Probably not anywhere close to hacking up his lungs or having difficulties breathing.

[KingsGambit]

It's ridiculous that someone powerful like Rand Paul was able to be tested out of "caution" despite having no symptoms, yet a friend of mine who has met every symptom and with a high fever for over a week was refused a test at a doctor's office, and at every other doctor's office they called in their own metro area. (Interestingly, the doctor who refused to test her still refused to speak with her without a mask.)