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  • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
    The USA is going for leper colony status as predicted.

    Eventually, it will burn itself out, or we will have an effective vaccine.
    I heard earlier that Germany has a vaccine that will be ready by December.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      ... the flu viruses infect fewer individuals, and no asymptomatic cases...
      https://www.centerforhealthsecurity....rt_103105.html

      Asymptomatic carriers play an important role.
      As many as 50% of infections with normal seasonal flu may be asymptomatic, which may in part be due to pre-existing partial immunity [1]. Asymptomatic patients shed virus and can transmit the disease, but not at the same rate as symptomatic individuals, which creates an invisible “reservoir” for the virus. The implication of this is that public health disease containment measures and infection control measures, alone, may slow but cannot stop a flu epidemic.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Maybe - but then that benefits the owners of that company - not the employees.
        having a job doesn't benefit the employees?




        Please back this claim up with some actual data. I am finding nothing to support this claim.
        Most people don't continue working at the local flip and sip but actually end up working at a real company which offers things like 401Ks. They don't all take advantage of it, but it is there. Unless someone works at a place that offers a pension (usually government jobs) they will eventually want to save for retirement, and the only way to really do that is with 401K IRA plans.




        A common mistake for those who do not understand economics and the stock market. The stock market is not the economy nor does it accurately reflect the economy. Generally, it is more in line with the degree of optimism present in the owners of the stocks and bonds. It can crash for no other reason than a major CEO gets sick or dies. It can spike for no other reason than a news story that suggests this or that vertical are poised to rebound or grow. It can move due to the election of a politician, or the announcement of a particularly bad hurricane season. The state of the economy is one of many factors that can influence the market.

        You are making the same mistake Trump has made since taking office. About 50% of the country could give a fig if the market is up or down at any given time. It has little/no direct impact on them.
        Sure, Carp. That is why we ended up with a Great Depression 100 years ago. Because the stock market has nothing to to with the economy.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          I heard earlier that Germany has a vaccine that will be ready by December.
          Good if the virus is cyclic and returns, by present trends this pandemic will taper off naturally by then.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            So you're comparing death by natural causes to death by a pandemic that could be contained?

            And you think that is meaningful?
            You were the one comparing a terrorist attack with a disease and thought that was meaningful. I just responded in kind.


            I think you need to review the field, Sparko. You can find the terminology explained here.

            And a case-specific mortality of 0.1% means that one out of 1,000 who catch it will die from it, not 1 out of 10,000.
            ------------

            When calculating the mortality rate, we need:

            The number of actual cases. We need to know the number of actual cases (not merely the reported ones, which are typically only a small portion of the actual ones) that have already had an outcome (positive or negative: recovery or death), not the current cases that still have to resolve (the case sample shall contain zero active cases and include only "closed" cases).
            The number of actual deaths related to the closed cases examined above.

            https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-rate/
            ------------
            And you are correct, 1 in 1000. See? Even you are using the number of cases not the entire population when calculating mortality rate.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              having a job doesn't benefit the employees?
              maybe.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Note that the two lines on your graph show a temporal shift of approximately two weeks, which is in line with the normal pattern of the viral outbreak. Since the dramatic up-turn in the cases-per-day began around June 17th, it suggests we should see hospitalizations follow suit around the 1st of July. Your graph shows the beginning of that turn as early as 6/24. We would need to see the graph for the last two weeks to see what has happened recently. I don't know the source of your graph so I cannot find a more updated one.

                Bottom line is, all of your arguments for how "things have decreased" are about to become moot - the numbers are going bad.


                ETA: We are at 30K new cases today already (1:00 PM EDT), with 336 deaths already. Florida is above 11K new cases, 3K cases over yesterdays numbers. Arizona is over 4K new cases. Both states are havens for "snow birds" and heavily populated by those retiring. Texas, California, and Georgia have not yet submitted numbers for today. In fact, 27 states have yet to report ANY numbers for today. My prediction: we are going to set a new record for new cases today and deaths will be near or over 1,000.
                Indeed. The expected delay in rise was lengthened a bit by the shift towards a younger demographic in places like california and florida with the lower mortality of younger victims, but that delay is over and the rise has begun. The past two days we clocked in at around 1000 deaths per day. The 7 day average* show a turn up. We are adding covid cases at 2x the rate we were when we began the first shutdown. Deaths are going to rise even with the shift in demographic. Further, that shift in demographic is only a temporary shift. They have parents and grandparents.

                Daily Deaths US 07102020.jpg

                While I do find it interesting that relatively intelligent people can be led astray into the politically based paranoid schizophrenia surrounding the virus in conservative circles, it is not hard to cure, provided those afflicted are willing to swallow the medicine. All one needs to do to cure it is turn off whatever conservative news source is massaging ones neurons and follow the numbers, the data. Assuming sufficient (high school) math and biology background, the truth emerges very quickly.

                *There is a 7 day cycle to reporting covid numbers. The 7 day average essentially removes that variability from the track and gives a true picture of the dynamic state of the progression of the disease in whatever US geographic area is being analyzed.
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  having a job doesn't benefit the employees?
                  Again - do you have data to support the assertion that changes in the stock market impact who does and does not have a job? A significant percentage of the workforce does not work for publicly traded companies. Even those who DO work for publicly traded companies, the value of the stock is within the secondary market and reflects the perceived value of the company to the stock holders. At best, you can make the claim that a company value is impacted if they own their own stock and that value climbs. But, again, the primary benefit is to the shareholders, not the employees.

                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Most people don't continue working at the local flip and sip but actually end up working at a real company which offers things like 401Ks. They don't all take advantage of it, but it is there. Unless someone works at a place that offers a pension (usually government jobs) they will eventually want to save for retirement, and the only way to really do that is with 401K IRA plans.
                  Sparko - you are making wild claims with absolutely no data to back it up. The data suggests that on 25% of people over age 22 work for companies that do not offer a 401K or any other form of plan. In fact, at least 30% of any particular age group have no access to such a vehicle. And the amounts IN those plans for people who have them are dismally low. Indeed, there is no age group for which the median exceeds $70K, including those close to retirement.

                  Your emphasis on the "stock market" demonstrates a narrowness of vision that ignores the reality for a huge block of Americans.

                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Sure, Carp. That is why we ended up with a Great Depression 100 years ago. Because the stock market has nothing to to with the economy.
                  You have built a strawman and are handily defeating it. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the argument made. I said the stock market is NOT the economy. I didn't say the stock market has NOTHING TO DO WITH the economy. Indeed, I pointed out that the economy is one of several factors that influence what happens in the stock market. And the influence can happen in reverse as well: what happens in the stock market can influence the economy. This is economics 101, Sparko. My point is that you are drawing an equivalence where none exists - and putting emphasis on the wrong element: the stock market rather than the economy.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    Again - do you have data to support the assertion that changes in the stock market impact who does and does not have a job? A significant percentage of the workforce does not work for publicly traded companies. Even those who DO work for publicly traded companies, the value of the stock is within the secondary market and reflects the perceived value of the company to the stock holders. At best, you can make the claim that a company value is impacted if they own their own stock and that value climbs. But, again, the primary benefit is to the shareholders, not the employees.
                    The stock market REFLECTS how well the economy is doing. If the businesses are not doing well, their stocks drop. If the fortune 500 are doing lousy, then companies that depend on their services also suffer, it is all interconnected. You are putting the cart before the horse.


                    Sparko - you are making wild claims with absolutely no data to back it up. The data suggests that on 25% of people over age 22 work for companies that do not offer a 401K or any other form of plan.
                    Um, that's 75% that do.



                    You have built a strawman and are handily defeating it. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with the argument made. I said the stock market is NOT the economy. I didn't say the stock market has NOTHING TO DO WITH the economy. Indeed, I pointed out that the economy is one of several factors that influence what happens in the stock market. And the influence can happen in reverse as well: what happens in the stock market can influence the economy. This is economics 101, Sparko. My point is that you are drawing an equivalence where none exists - and putting emphasis on the wrong element: the stock market rather than the economy.
                    Except for rare instances, like this COVID causing the stock market to drop when the economy was still doing relatively well, the stock market doesn't drive the economy, it reflects the economy. If the economy is lousy, in all likelyhood the stock market will be doing badly. But the stock market can also affect the economy, because like in 1929, if the rich people all lose their money and go out of business because of a stock market crash, then that will have a feedback on the economy as everyone starts losing their jobs.
                    Last edited by Sparko; 07-10-2020, 03:30 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      You were the one comparing a terrorist attack with a disease and thought that was meaningful. I just responded in kind.
                      Sparko - both are forms of "attack" on the citizens of this country. One arises from a human enemy - the other from a virological one. Both can be mitigated if the right steps are taken. Both are horrific if allowed to occur without making a reasonable effort to prevent them. Both terminate lives before their natural end.

                      Death by natural causes is simply nature taking its course. It reflects the fact that we all die eventually. Your comparison is, if you'll excuse me, a little silly.

                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      ------------

                      When calculating the mortality rate, we need:

                      The number of actual cases. We need to know the number of actual cases (not merely the reported ones, which are typically only a small portion of the actual ones) that have already had an outcome (positive or negative: recovery or death), not the current cases that still have to resolve (the case sample shall contain zero active cases and include only "closed" cases).
                      The number of actual deaths related to the closed cases examined above.

                      https://www.worldometers.info/corona...us-death-rate/
                      ------------
                      What you have shown here is that world-o-meters is using language differently than the CDC. They are also using the language differently than standard epidemiology textbooks. I prefer to use the language as it is taught by the experts, rather than as used on any particular website. It is clearer and more consistent.

                      Feel free to continue to use world-o-meters incorrect language if you wish. I'll try to remember that is your preference. Getting back to the original point, your claim was that more testing lowers the case-specific mortality rate. It doesn't. It merely lowers our perception of it. There is an actual case-specific mortality rate that is the total number of deaths divided by the total number of infections. Early data suggested that was approximately 1%. Subsequent data from locals that have conducted broad testing continues to affirm that number as an average across all ages, but has further defined it by age to have a range of 0.2% for the youngest/healthiest to 14% for the oldest/sickest. All of those numbers are an order of magnitude higher than the flu.

                      And the current crude estimate of those numbers, derived by dividing the known deaths into the known infections, sits at 4.22% for the U.S. and 4.50% for the world. Those numbers continue to drop as testing expands, but the preliminary curve appears to converge at the predicted 1% level.

                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      And you are correct, 1 in 1000. See? Even you are using the number of cases not the entire population when calculating mortality rate.
                      And if you read what I posted carefully, I also used the correct language: "case-specific mortality rate"
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Indeed. The expected delay in rise was lengthened a bit by the shift towards a younger demographic in places like california and florida with the lower mortality of younger victims, but that delay is over and the rise has begun. The past two days we clocked in at around 1000 deaths per day. The 7 day average* show a turn up. We are adding covid cases at 2x the rate we were when we began the first shutdown. Deaths are going to rise even with the shift in demographic. Further, that shift in demographic is only a temporary shift. They have parents and grandparents.

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]46494[/ATTACH]

                        While I do find it interesting that relatively intelligent people can be led astray into the politically based paranoid schizophrenia surrounding the virus in conservative circles, it is not hard to cure, provided those afflicted are willing to swallow the medicine. All one needs to do to cure it is turn off whatever conservative news source is massaging ones neurons and follow the numbers, the data. Assuming sufficient (high school) math and biology background, the truth emerges very quickly.

                        *There is a 7 day cycle to reporting covid numbers. The 7 day average essentially removes that variability from the track and gives a true picture of the dynamic state of the progression of the disease in whatever US geographic area is being analyzed.
                        Don't forget to shutdown all doctors telling you the fast-acting treatments used on those who have symptoms of coronavirus. Doctors are acting against public policy when provide these effective and proven treatments. Your slogan can be "no more treatments. give us covid."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          The stock market REFLECTS how well the economy is doing. If the businesses are not doing well, their stocks drop. If the fortune 500 are doing lousy, then companies that depend on their services also suffer, it is all interconnected. You are putting the cart before the horse.
                          Explain, exactly, how I am "putting the cart before the horse." What exactly did I say that prompts this response?

                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Um, that's 75% that do.
                          Access, Sparko. My post was to emphasize that 25% of the country doesn't even have access to such accounts. Of those that do, there still remains a large block that are not company funded and are not used by the employees. In 2018, 58 million Americans had 401K plans. In 2018 there were 130 million full time workers in the U.S.. That means 44.6% of the full-time U.S. workforce had a 401K. When you factor in the 27.19M part time workers, the number drops to 36.9% with actual 401Ks, leaving 63.1% of the full/part time working population without.

                          Hence my claim: the stock market means little/nothing to the majority of American workers. They primarily care about their paycheck, their hours, and what few benefits they have remaining - especially healthcare. They may come to care about it when they are older - but at any given time, over half the country simply doesn't care what is happening in the market. It means nothing to them.

                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Except for rare instances, like this COVID causing the stock market to drop when the economy was still doing relatively well, the stock market doesn't drive the economy, it reflects the economy. If the economy is lousy, in all likelyhood the stock market will be doing badly. But the stock market can also affect the economy, because like in 1929, if the rich people all lose their money and go out of business because of a stock market crash, then that will have a feedback on the economy as everyone starts losing their jobs.
                          Here you seem to be repeating what I said using slightly different words.
                          Last edited by carpedm9587; 07-10-2020, 03:54 PM.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                            Don't forget to shutdown all doctors telling you the fast-acting treatments used on those who have symptoms of coronavirus. Doctors are acting against public policy when provide these effective and proven treatments. Your slogan can be "no more treatments. give us covid."
                            There you go. Crazy paranoid conspiracy theory number 1. competent doctors and scientists don't just randomly prescribe unproven therapeutics urged on my politically motivated sources. To this point, there has been no effective and proven treatment that withstood an actual scientific study of the effect of the medication with the exception of remdesivir. Studies of hydroxychloroquine have shown it to be more harmful that helpful, especially in patients with severe symptoms.

                            Anecdotal reports, unlike true scientific studies of a population, can't differentiate between a patient actually helped or hurt by a drug and a patient that otherwise independently of the drug would just have gotten better or gotten worse.

                            Flawed studies also fail to make the cut, like the one that has created the latest political faux pas wrt hydroxychlorquine:

                            https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/...pay-the-price/

                            From the article:

                            Source: above

                            At the root of the conflict is the fundamental principle that the FDA uses to evaluate drugs. Decisions are based almost entirely on what is known as a randomized controlled trial, in which patients are randomly assigned to receive a treatment or not. Other types of studies have, again and again, failed to deliver accurate information about medicines’ benefits and risks, and are used sparingly in making medical decisions. Three randomized studies have now shown no benefit for hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients.

                            © Copyright Original Source



                            This latest boondogle is not a randomized study, further, it mixes use of hydroxychloroquine with steroids which actually DO help, biasing the result.

                            Source: above

                            The study that sparked the latest controversy was anything but randomized. Not only was it not randomized, outside experts noted, but patients who received hydroxychloroquine were also more likely to get steroids, which appear to help very sick patients with Covid-19. That is likely to have influenced the central finding of the Henry Ford study: that death rates were 50% lower among patients in hospitals treated with hydroxychloroquine.

                            © Copyright Original Source



                            Now if you don't understand the problem, then you, like Trump and Navarro (the trade advisor pushing for a change based on this 'result'), are wholly unqualified to accept the results of this study over the other 3 mentioned previous studies which showed no benefit.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              There you go. Crazy paranoid conspiracy theory number 1. competent doctors and scientists don't just randomly prescribe unproven therapeutics urged on my politically motivated sources. To this point, there has been no effective and proven treatment that withstood an actual scientific study of the effect of the medication with the exception of remdesivir. Studies of hydroxychloroquine have shown it to be more harmful that helpful, especially in patients with severe symptoms.

                              Anecdotal reports, unlike true scientific studies of a population, can't differentiate between a patient actually helped or hurt by a drug and a patient that otherwise independently of the drug would just have gotten better or gotten worse.

                              Flawed studies also fail to make the cut, like the one that has created the latest political faux pas wrt hydroxychlorquine:

                              https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/...pay-the-price/

                              From the article:

                              Source: above

                              At the root of the conflict is the fundamental principle that the FDA uses to evaluate drugs. Decisions are based almost entirely on what is known as a randomized controlled trial, in which patients are randomly assigned to receive a treatment or not. Other types of studies have, again and again, failed to deliver accurate information about medicines’ benefits and risks, and are used sparingly in making medical decisions. Three randomized studies have now shown no benefit for hydroxychloroquine in hospitalized patients.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              This latest boondogle is not a randomized study, further, it mixes use of hydroxychloroquine with steroids which actually DO help, biasing the result.

                              Source: above

                              The study that sparked the latest controversy was anything but randomized. Not only was it not randomized, outside experts noted, but patients who received hydroxychloroquine were also more likely to get steroids, which appear to help very sick patients with Covid-19. That is likely to have influenced the central finding of the Henry Ford study: that death rates were 50% lower among patients in hospitals treated with hydroxychloroquine.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              Now if you don't understand the problem, then you, like Trump and Navarro (the trade advisor pushing for a change based on this 'result'), are wholly unqualified to accept the results of this study over the other 3 mentioned previous studies which showed no benefit.
                              The steroid issue is interesting. The early demand for ventilators was based on the initial belief that COvid-19, being a respiratory illness (among other things) would require ventilators for those entering late stage. But ventilators are only good when the problem is mechanical (i.e., getting air into the lungs). They are much more ineffective when the problem is movement of oxygen into the bloodstream within the lungs. The virus can, apparently, seriously impair this process, with inflammation being a major component. So they have found that steroids can be used to reduce the inflammation and improve oxygen transfer.

                              I suspect all of the "best practices" that have been found will help to keep the number of daily deaths from rising to their previous levels. However, those previous levels were with up to 30K new cases per day. If best practices halve the deaths, doubling the infection rate will likely make up that difference. And if Fauci is right and we are heading for triple that rate - look out.

                              ETA: We set a new record today already, with over 71K new cases and 800+ deaths.
                              Last edited by carpedm9587; 07-10-2020, 07:04 PM.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Thing are not going well in Texas . .

                                Source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/all-hospitals-are-full-houston-overwhelmed-icus-leave-covid-19-n1233430



                                'All the hospitals are full': In Houston, overwhelmed ICUs leave COVID-19 patients waiting in ER
                                Officials in Houston warn of a potential replay of what happened in New York in the spring, when thousands of people died as hospitals struggled to keep up.


                                July 10, 2020, 2:15 PM EDT
                                By Mike Hixenbaugh and Charles Ornstein, ProPublica
                                This article was produced in partnership with ProPublica, a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive ProPublica's biggest stories as soon as they’re published.

                                HOUSTON — Houston hospitals have been forced to treat hundreds of COVID-19 patients in their emergency rooms — sometimes for several hours or multiple days — as they scramble to open additional intensive care beds for the wave of seriously ill people streaming through their doors, according to internal numbers shared with NBC News and ProPublica.

                                At the same time, the region’s 12 busiest hospitals are increasingly telling emergency responders that they cannot safely accept new patients, at a rate nearly three times that of a year ago, according to data reviewed by reporters.

                                The increase in ambulance diversions, coupled with the spike in patients being held indefinitely in emergency rooms, are the latest indicators that Houston hospitals are straining to keep up with a surge of new coronavirus patients. ProPublica and NBC News have previously reported that a public hospital in Houston ran out of a medication to treat COVID-19 patients and that a spike in at-home deaths from cardiac arrest suggests that the death toll from the coronavirus may be higher than official statistics show.

                                On Thursday, 3,812 people were hospitalized with COVID-19 in the region, including more than 1,000 in intensive care units, a record since the pandemic began. At the same time, since Texas officials have not issued another stay-at-home order to slow the virus’s spread, hospitals are also still seeing a steady flow of patients in need of care as a result of car accidents, violent crime and heat-related medical emergencies.



                                Houston patients wait in ER for hours, days before being moved to hospital beds
                                JULY 10, 202004:24
                                Officials in Houston are warning that the situation could become a replay of what happened in New York City in March and April, when thousands of people died as hospitals struggled to keep up with the surge of patients, but without the same level of government intervention to stem the tide.

                                Typically when people arrive at a hospital emergency department, they’re evaluated and treated by the medical staff. Those sick or injured enough to require hospitalization are then moved to other areas of the hospital for specialized care. But increasingly in Houston, particularly for patients suffering from COVID-19, there’s nowhere for them to go.

                                Full coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

                                “Normally that patient would just go to an ICU bed, but because there are no beds available, they continue to board in the emergency room,” said Harris Health System president and CEO Esmaeil Porsa, who oversees the city’s two public safety-net hospitals. “It is not an optimal level of care. This is not something we would choose to do. The only reason this is happening is because we are being forced to do it.”

                                Although hospital leaders say they are working to provide high-quality care for patients being held in emergency rooms — in part by bringing specialized medical staff and equipment to patients being treated there — studies done before the coronavirus pandemic show that the longer patients stay in ERs, the worse their outcomes.

                                © Copyright Original Source

                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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