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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Yes, and we can only hope that President Xi Jinping and the Communist Party of China are held accountable.
    These are the words of Donald Trump:

    China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...18115354923009
    It will all work out well...
    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      What's there to answer? I assume you're as upset about Obama golfing while people were dying from the swine flu as you are about Trump golfing with White House guests, or mentioning the good TV ratings for the task force briefings.
      Well we know you were constantly whining about Obama golfing because you were told to be upset about it, but Trump, who also complained about Obama golfing, and who told you he wouldn't be golfing at all, that he'd be too busy to be playing golf, plays twice as much golf as Obama ever did, and yet you're no longer whining. You've been trained well, MM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        What's there to answer? I assume you're as upset about Obama golfing while people were dying from the swine flu as you are about Trump golfing with White House guests, or mentioning the good TV ratings for the task force briefings.
        Actually, I've made my views quite clear: Obama playing golf is a nonissue. The pandemic lasted a year, and I do not expect anyone to go an entire year without seeking some sort of break. The optics are terrible, but then I don't drive my decisions on the basis of optics. Likewise, Trump playing golf is a nonissue - for the same reason.

        It is you folks who are pounding on the Obama drum, while ignoring the fact that your leader of choice did exactly the same thing that exposes a double standard. You are stuck having to betray Trump - exonerate Obama - or continue to push forward the double standard.


        The Trump comment about news briefings is a separate issue you are desperately trying to cling to and link in so as to claim "double standard." The comment betrays a self-centered, self-aggrandizing man more concerned with his own ratings and ego than empathetic for the people affected by the pandemic. It has nothing to do with taking a break and getting some rest. But you can keep flailing away at it if it helps you to avoid the actual double standard you don't want to confront.

        Which is probably what you will do....


        Your exposer of duplicity -

        Carpe de Prig
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Charles View Post
          These are the words of Donald Trump:



          It will all work out well...
          January 25th. You have great hindsight, Charles.

          A President speaking as a diplomat.

          You would rather he alienated the Chinese government, and make the American people frightened and panicked?

          Perhaps Trump should have tweeted "The fat-cat leaders of the parasitic Communist regime oppressing the Chinese people are desperately trying to cover their butts, even at the cost of thousands of Chinese lives. Wait till it gets here, experts tell me several hundred thousand Americans will die. I expect it to be worse than that." ?
          ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Well we know you were constantly whining about Obama golfing because you were told to be upset about it, but Trump, who also complained about Obama golfing, and who told you he wouldn't be golfing at all, that he'd be too busy to be playing golf, plays twice as much golf as Obama ever did, and yet you're no longer whining. You've been trained well, MM.
            Trump has played 2.5 times as much golf overall - which has cost American taxpayers about 334 years of presidential salary. Again, I really don't care if a person takes a break and gets rest, and certainly a president deserves it. My issue is with the duplicity of pounding on Obama for it, promising you would not be golfing and would be "working his backside off," and then proceeding to do more of the very thing he was criticizing about. And I object to so much of my taxpayer money being spent to do it.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
              Uh, yeah. The underlined above is complete speculation on your part. It's an unknowable hypothetical - 'how leader X would have handled this situation', and tainted by your bias against Trump. Please stick to reporting the curves, and the data we have. That stuff is interesting.
              While I agree that is my opinion and not something that could ever be proved, it is based on these simple realities. Trump is where he is because

              1) he eschews science and/or experts and especially career professionals: He believes himself their equal and to be able to 'just know' what things are and how they should be
              2) he lies about the facts constantly to all of us. But having such a large and vocal crowd of supporters, this creates a substantial pressure on potentially good leaders in government to defer to Trumps denial of reality.
              3) he has tended to demand those around him placate him and praise him - over and above telling him like it is.

              These are not characteristics that were shared in any substantial degree by those on my lists, and certainly not all together at the same time in the same person.

              ----

              But please may I ask you not to lose focus on the bulk of my post over this element? whether or not other US presidents would have fared as poorly (and it is virtually certain they would not have) is ultimately of not consequence to our current situation, nor is it necessary to prove true or false in that MOST other leaders in the western world have done better, SOME have done spectacularly better, but it is Trumps unique failings of the sort that we all knew existed and should have never voted into power that have allowed him to take the title of 'worst' or 'nearly the worst' in that field.

              The United States of America, perhaps the richest, most powerful nation, most technologically advanced nation on the earth is running nearly dead last in its fight against this disease.

              And the primary reason for that rests on the scientifically ignorant, self-focused narcissist that is currently occupying the office of POTUS. A man who openly admitted to snubbing governors and the people in their charge as they cry for help in securing equipment and supplies simply because they did not placate his ego with sufficient praise. A man who deferred to the requests of business with their eyes on profits over the needs of the nation in terms of creating those supplies and getting them to the areas that need them. A man who still, to this very day, can't conduct a press conference dealing with the needs of this nation without first self-congratulating and who refuses to acknowledge previous failings - a necessary first step to correcting them!
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedmprig View Post
                Actually, I've made my views quite clear: Obama playing golf is a nonissue.
                Naturally.

                Originally posted by carpedmprig View Post
                It is you folks who are pounding on the Obama drum, while ignoring the fact that your leader of choice did exactly the same thing that exposes a double standard.
                You're upset about the "optics" of Trump mentioning TV ratings during the China flu briefings, but you're not upset about the "optics" of Obama golfing while swine flu fatalities numbered over 12,000. That's your double standard, prig, not mine.

                Personally, I could care less if Obama was out golfing, and I could care less if Trump mentions TV ratings. As far as I'm concerned, they're both a non-issue.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                  January 25th. You have great hindsight, Charles.

                  A President speaking as a diplomat.

                  You would rather he alienated the Chinese government, and make the American people frightened and panicked?

                  Perhaps Trump should have tweeted "The fat-cat leaders of the parasitic Communist regime oppressing the Chinese people are desperately trying to cover their butts, even at the cost of thousands of Chinese lives. Wait till it gets here, experts tell me several hundred thousand Americans will die. I expect it to be worse than that." ?
                  For those who would wish China were held accountable it is perhaps worth noting that the worlds most powerful man says: "In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!" You can find all the excuses you like for him and create straw men about what he should have tweeted - they only help to make sure China will not be held accountable. The president thanked them on behalf of you and Mountain Man. And it seems he can trust you to find excuses for him.
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Naturally.

                    [...]
                    And here is what you left out: "Likewise, Trump playing golf is a nonissue - for the same reason."
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Naturally.
                      Ahh...the old "delete everything that explains so you can take the statement out of context," trick. Nicely done, MM. You continue to demonstrate your duplicity with pretty much every post.

                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      You're upset about the "optics" of Trump mentioning TV ratings during the China flu briefings, but you're not upset about the "optics" of Obama golfing while swine flu fatalities numbered over 12,000. That's your double standard, prig, not mine.
                      Wow - are you REALLY this stupid, or do you just pretend to be to cling to your points? Again, for the slow of mind, I am not concerned about the "optics" of anything. Trump's harping on his ratings demonstrates that he cares more for his audience size than the people suffering. I find that objectionable in a leader. If you can find a place where Obama said something that clearly demonstrated he cared more for his ratings than the people he served, you will be comparing apples to apples, and I will be equally outraged with Obama.

                      Trump OR Obama golfing means they are human and need a break and some relaxation in the midst of a pandemic. I am unconcerned about either. But keep spinning, MM, though it does make me a bit

                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Personally, I could care less if Obama was out golfing, and I could care less if Trump mentions TV ratings. As far as I'm concerned, they're both a non-issue.
                      Oh my...you really ARE a liar. You pound and pound on "Obama golfing" and then suddenly "I don't really care!" Jello - meet nail and tree...with a healthy dose of duplicity.

                      At this point, it is fairly clear that further exchanges with you and Pix are largely pointless... so I think I'll leave you to your disinformation campaign and your well constructed bubble.


                      Signing off as your nemesis... last words to you... make them good ones!


                      Carpe de Prig
                      Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-31-2020, 10:49 AM.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                        And here is what you left out: "Likewise, Trump playing golf is a nonissue - for the same reason."
                        Yeah... I'm sure he knows. It's his standard operating procedure: cut out what he cannot answer or shows him in a bad light.
                        Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-31-2020, 11:11 AM.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          Trump has played 2.5 times as much golf overall - which has cost American taxpayers about 334 years of presidential salary. Again, I really don't care if a person takes a break and gets rest, and certainly a president deserves it. My issue is with the duplicity of pounding on Obama for it, promising you would not be golfing and would be "working his backside off," and then proceeding to do more of the very thing he was criticizing about. And I object to so much of my taxpayer money being spent to do it.
                          Not only is it taxpayer money paying for it, but much of that taxpayer money is going right back into the pockets of Donald J. Trump. Can you imagine MM's reaction if that was the case with Obama?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedmprig View Post
                            You pound and pound on "Obama golfing" and then suddenly "I don't really care!"
                            I didn't "pound and pound" on it, prig. You're the one who got your nose out of joint because your President mentioned the good ratings of the televised task force briefings and lamented,

                            "I'm trying to imagine ANY other president acting that way."

                            When I mentioned that Obama was out golfing while the bodies of swine flu victims piled up, you gave it your trademark hand wave and then immediately pivoted to the general golfing habits of each president while ignoring the actual point of the discussion, which is that you're only upset about Trump's "optics" but not Obama's. In other words, you're a baldfaced hypocrite.

                            Are we clear now?
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              While I agree that is my opinion and not something that could ever be proved, it is based on these simple realities. Trump is where he is because

                              1) he eschews science and/or experts and especially career professionals: He believes himself their equal and to be able to 'just know' what things are and how they should be
                              2) he lies about the facts constantly to all of us. But having such a large and vocal crowd of supporters, this creates a substantial pressure on potentially good leaders in government to defer to Trumps denial of reality.
                              3) he has tended to demand those around him placate him and praise him - over and above telling him like it is.

                              These are not characteristics that were shared in any substantial degree by those on my lists, and certainly not all together at the same time in the same person.

                              ----

                              But please may I ask you not to lose focus on the bulk of my post over this element? whether or not other US presidents would have fared as poorly (and it is virtually certain they would not have) is ultimately of not consequence to our current situation, nor is it necessary to prove true or false in that MOST other leaders in the western world have done better, SOME have done spectacularly better, but it is Trumps unique failings of the sort that we all knew existed and should have never voted into power that have allowed him to take the title of 'worst' or 'nearly the worst' in that field.

                              The United States of America, perhaps the richest, most powerful nation, most technologically advanced nation on the earth is running nearly dead last in its fight against this disease.

                              And the primary reason for that rests on the scientifically ignorant, self-focused narcissist that is currently occupying the office of POTUS. A man who openly admitted to snubbing governors and the people in their charge as they cry for help in securing equipment and supplies simply because they did not placate his ego with sufficient praise. A man who deferred to the requests of business with their eyes on profits over the needs of the nation in terms of creating those supplies and getting them to the areas that need them. A man who still, to this very day, can't conduct a press conference dealing with the needs of this nation without first self-congratulating and who refuses to acknowledge previous failings - a necessary first step to correcting them!

                              Ox, you're simply too biased against Trump to be at all objective about him, therefore your conclusions above are not at all convincing to me. You always read the worst into whatever he says or does, you are ready to believe any and every negative report about him, thus your negative view of him is self-fulfilling and self-sustaining. You don't apply any critical assessment to news reports about Trump, nor do you exercise any principle of charity in regards to him.

                              Thus the 'data' you are using to make your assessment of him is corrupted and biased by your prejudice, since you accept every negative thing reported and disregard any positive or neutral interpretation of his words and acts. To use a scientific metaphor, you are shaping the data to fit your hypothesis.

                              My view is that he is a typical loud-mouthed, boastful and somewhat arrogant New York business magnate, brash and overbearing in his speech. But once you look past that, he hasn't done too badly in many regards. Remember the dire predictions of pretty much immediate nuclear war with North Korea if he got elected? A close personal friend with some degree of knowledge in the field was very concerned about that... ... he didn't do too badly there, did he?

                              I have one suggestion for you - dig back on Scott Adam's (Dilbert cartoonist) blog for his posts leading up to the 2016 election. I found his insight and analysis into persuasion and deal-making techniques very insightful and helpful in understanding Trump. An example is this post, but please take the time to read others from that time period. Put simply, Trump is a very gifted persuader / deal-maker. A LOT of what he says and does is based off that paradigm. For example, he will say something 'out there' as a way of testing 'the market', or establishing a position when making a deal - his next move will be based off the reaction to that. If he's trying to get something done - negotiating a deal with opposing politicians or a bureaucracy - he will start with a high bid (something outrageous) to give himself room to be 'bargained down' to a deal he is actually happy with.
                              Last edited by MaxVel; 03-31-2020, 11:18 AM. Reason: spelling
                              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                I didn't "pound and pound" on it, prig. You're the one who got your nose out of joint because your President mentioned the good ratings of the televised task force briefings and lamented,

                                "I'm trying to imagine ANY other president acting that way."

                                When I mentioned that Obama was out golfing while the bodies of swine flu victims piled up, you gave it your trademark hand wave and then immediately pivoted to the general golfing habits of each president while ignoring the actual point of the discussion, which is that you're only upset about Trump's "optics" but not Obama's. In other words, you're a baldfaced hypocrite.

                                Are we clear now?
                                Disappointing. I was hoping your post would actually be good...


                                Tata...

                                Carpe de Prig
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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