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Thread: Coronavirus Outbreak...

  1. #1601
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Trump does seem to be trying to do what needs to be done. But he still won't listen to those that know, and as a consequence remains several steps behind what is needed.

    But he is improving. The question is, can he grow up fast enough.
    The U.S. has more infections than India or China, both of whom have populations that are four times the U.S. population, and our curve (both new cases and deaths) is still exponentially growing. We have 4.3% of the world's population and 15.8% of the world's infections.

    Meanwhile we have an occupant of the Oval Office talking about "getting people back to work," no action on nationalizing coordination of supplies between states so it remains the "wild west," and a continual stream of disinformation from the oval office. Somehow, I'm not seeing "effective leadership." In fact, the leader that is focusing strongly on testing and providing accurate information to his constituents is Cuomo in NY. I suspect it is their strong focus on testing that is one of the reasons the New York numbers are so high. They are testing 10,000 people per day and testing is a major focus of their control initiatives. Overall U.S. testing rates have been 1/6th those of S. Korea which is seeing a significant flattening of their growth curve. That plus the mixed messaging from the White House is still resulting in people taking this less seriously than they should.

    Yes, Trump is improving. But I don't think he is ultimately capable of getting past his narcissim and his conspiracy-focused mindset to be as effective as he could be. I wish Kelly were still his chief of staff. He might have been able to counter Trump's worst impulses.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-26-2020 at 04:42 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  2. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  3. #1602
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    A few suggestions:

    Stop making claims Fauci has to correct.

    Listen to the actual experts concerning what should be done.

    Speak Truthfully from the podium to the American people.

    Stop yielding to big business as it concerns the manufacture and distribution of ventilators and PPE. IOW, Stop allowing capitalism (highest bidder) to determine who gets supplies. Fix the prices at 3 months previous per that company's own price history. They can go lower, but not higher.

    Require they sell to the areas of highest need in the US FIRST.

    Mobilize military capacity to distribute said items to the areas that need them.
    Agreed.

    And I doubt most of that list will happen, unfortunately.

    ETA: In the bright side, I was pretty sure Fauci would be toast by now, so at least THAT is good news. It's sad when "he didn't fire his best experts" is actually considered a point in Trump's favor.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-26-2020 at 04:45 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  4. Amen oxmixmudd amen'd this post.
  5. #1603
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That doesn't answer the question: what, exactly, is President Trump supposed to be doing that he isn't already doing, or hasn't already proposed?
    In the UK, Boris said, we will introduce measures when the time comes. He missed a chance to get in front of this thing. Not enough beds, nurses, PPE, ventilators, tests and so on. If your hospitals are not properly equipped, the doctors and nurses go down with the virus too. You need to get into high volume production of all the stuff that the doctors need.

    Your malaria drugs, by the way, are going to do nothing for you.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  6. #1604
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    The U.S. has more infections than India or China, both of whom have populations that are four times the U.S. population, and our curve (both new cases and deaths) is still exponentially growing. We have 4.3% of the world's population and 15.8% of the world's infections.

    Meanwhile we have an occupant of the Oval Office talking about "getting people back to work," no action on nationalizing coordination of supplies between states so it remains the "wild west," and a continual stream of disinformation from the oval office. Somehow, I'm not seeing "effective leadership." In fact, the leader that is focusing strongly on testing and providing accurate information to his constituents is Cuomo in NY. I suspect it is their strong focus on testing that is one of the reasons the New York numbers are so high. They are testing 10,000 people per day and testing is a major focus of their control initiatives. Overall U.S. testing rates have been 1/6th those of S. Korea which is seeing a significant flattening of their growth curve. That plus the mixed messaging from the White House is still resulting in people taking this less seriously than they should.

    Yes, Trump is improving. But I don't think he is ultimately capable of getting past his narcissim and his conspiracy-focused mindset to be as effective as he could be. I wish Kelly were still his chief of staff. He might have been able to counter Trump's worst impulses.
    Coronavirus cases are mostly located in the larger cities, Carp.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  7. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Coronavirus cases are mostly located in the larger cities, Carp.
    Yes, but there are enough cases now in smaller cities and rural areas that each county (I think, couldn't find county stats) is effectively "seeded".

    We have become the world's leader in number of cases, beating out the Chicoms.

  8. #1606
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Federal Defense Production Act ..... needed now.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  9. #1607
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    Federal Defense Production Act ..... needed now.
    I have mixed feelings on the need for that. Would it necessarily make any difference? Every company able to manufacture those is doing it. Manufacturers have noted that there is no magic bullet to get more machines, some parts of the supply chain need lead time. Ford and countless machine shops can produce the sheet metal parts needed, electronics need to come from somewhere else. If remediation efforts work to drop the spread of the disease (the first line of defense), then the ventilators are not needed. Ventilators are needed because remediation efforts have failed.

    One thing few have commented on is just what the impact of sending the ventilators out of the stockpile would be. Would the malpractice lawyers take a knee after this is done and over with? We will have nurses on new machines that they are unfamiliar with, and little time for practical teaching on the different brand of machine. The need to work extended hours has not shielded health care workers in the past from lawsuits.

  10. #1608
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Coronavirus cases are mostly located in the larger cities, Carp.
    I have no idea what that has to do with my post. 60% of China is urban so they have almost 3 times as many people in cities as we do. 34% of India is urban, so they have more people in cities than we have in our entire population.

    If your point is NY has more because of NYC, there is some truth to that because NYC has the highest density of any American city, but it is not enough to explain the differentials. We have many other cities with densities nearly as high and not reporting the same numbers. Two other factors are at work: NY is testing more than any other state and NYC is not only an international travel hub but also an international travel destination. But I suspect we will see flare ups in every other major U.S. city. They are just behind NYC's curve.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  11. #1609
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    I have mixed feelings on the need for that. Would it necessarily make any difference? Every company able to manufacture those is doing it. Manufacturers have noted that there is no magic bullet to get more machines, some parts of the supply chain need lead time. Ford and countless machine shops can produce the sheet metal parts needed, electronics need to come from somewhere else. If remediation efforts work to drop the spread of the disease (the first line of defense), then the ventilators are not needed. Ventilators are needed because remediation efforts have failed.

    One thing few have commented on is just what the impact of sending the ventilators out of the stockpile would be. Would the malpractice lawyers take a knee after this is done and over with? We will have nurses on new machines that they are unfamiliar with, and little time for practical teaching on the different brand of machine. The need to work extended hours has not shielded health care workers in the past from lawsuits.
    We lost precious time with all of Trump's posturing and now his delay in enacting it. The Defense Production Act is not just limited to businesses that already produce what is needed, but can also be used for businesses that could be retooled quickly to produce the needed materials, and even the expansion of existing businesses. Basically, anything that is needed to deal with the crisis.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  12. #1610
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I have no idea what that has to do with my post. 60% of China is urban so they have almost 3 times as many people in cities as we do. 34% of India is urban, so they have more people in cities than we have in our entire population.

    If your point is NY has more because of NYC, there is some truth to that because NYC has the highest density of any American city, but it is not enough to explain the differentials. We have many other cities with densities nearly as high and not reporting the same numbers. Two other factors are at work: NY is testing more than any other state and NYC is not only an international travel hub but also an international travel destination. But I suspect we will see flare ups in every other major U.S. city. They are just behind NYC's curve.
    Which is a point. Cuomo has been making in his pleas for the fed's to act.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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