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  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    People are suffering and Trump might not be re-elected. I thought you’d be pleased that your wish came true!
    You are pushing forward a false witness when you claim that I am wishing for people to suffer. Given the number of times I have corrected that misstatement, I have to conclude that you are intentionally lying so as to disparage me publicly. I would have thought you would have known better.

    Trump not being re-elected I am wishing for, but I didn't factor in the effect of handing out tons of cash. That may actually flip the election back to Trump.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-27-2020, 11:32 AM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      You are pushing forward a false witness when you claim that I am wishing for people to suffer. GIven the number of times I have corrected that misstatement, I have to conclude that you are intentionally lying so as to disparage me publicly. I would have thought you would have known better.

      Trump not being re-elected I am wishing for, but I didn't factor in the effect of handing out tons of cash. That may actually flip the election back to Trump.
      I am?

      So you didn’t say you’d be willing to suffer economic hardship, to stop Trump from being re-elected?

      You seem to be getting what you asked for, maybe next time you’ll be more careful what you wish for because you just might get it.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        I am?

        So you didn’t say you’d be willing to suffer economic hardship, to stop Trump from being re-elected?
        I said that I would accept financial hardship if it means Trump is not re-elected. I did not say I was wishing for it or that I was wishing for others to suffer - ever. Your statement is false. But history suggests you will engage in a nonstop sequence of tangents and excuses and not acknowledge your error for one second - so I'll leave the last word to you. I have no interest in your tangents.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          I said that I would accept financial hardship if it means Trump is not re-elected. I did not say I was wishing for it or that I was wishing for others to suffer - ever. Your statement is false. But history suggests you will engage in a nonstop sequence of tangents and excuses and not acknowledge your error for one second - so I'll leave the last word to you. I have no interest in your tangents.
          And what has to happen, for you to suffer financial hardship and it matter, in re-election?
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            And what has to happen, for you to suffer financial hardship and it matter, in re-election?
            Exactly. For his statement to have any meaning, he must necessarily be wishing for a significant economic downturn that would not only impact him, who I suspect would weather an economic downturn just fine, but also many, many others who would be devastated by such an event.

            But hey, anything to get Bad Orange Man out of office, right? I just can't imagine what it's like to wake up everyday thinking, "I really hope my President screws up in a big way!" CS Lewis warned of such a mindset leading one to a point where they will only be satisfied with ever increasing evil.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              Exactly. For his statement to have any meaning, he must necessarily be wishing for a significant economic downturn that would not only impact him, who I suspect would weather an economic downturn just fine, but also many, many others who would be devastated by such an event.

              But hey, anything to get Bad Orange Man out of office, right? I just can't imagine what it's like to wake up everyday thinking, "I really hope my President screws up in a big way!" CS Lewis warned of such a mindset leading one to a point where they will only be satisfied with ever increasing evil.
              There is a distinction with being willing to accept a situation - and wishing for it. That you are perpetuating this narrative means you are participating in Pix's lie. As with her, I have no expectation that you will acknowledge it, never mind apologize for it, so (as with Pix) I'll leave the last word to you. I have no interest in your dancing around the obvious and perpetuating a lie to avoid acknowledging an error.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                There is a distinction with being willing to accept a situation - and wishing for it. That you are perpetuating this narrative means you are participating in Pix's lie. As with her, I have no expectation that you will acknowledge it, never mind apologize for it, so (as with Pix) I'll leave the last word to you. I have no interest in your dancing around the obvious and perpetuating a lie to avoid acknowledging an error.
                It wasn’t a lie, you said just as I said you did and you’re excusing it away because how bad it sounds.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  There is a distinction with being willing to accept a situation - and wishing for it.
                  Come on, carpe, don't tell me that hearing bad economic news doesn't make you just a little happy.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Come on, carpe, don't tell me that hearing bad economic news doesn't make you just a little happy.
                    I doubt that very few of those on the left are actually happy to see bad economic new (obvious exceptions include Bill Maher and a few others who have publicly wished for a recession if it would hurt Trump), but rather see it as a "silver lining" of sorts.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Come on, carpe, don't tell me that hearing bad economic news doesn't make you just a little happy.
                      To be fair, I think this is a case of, “Be careful what you wish for because it might happen,” but since he seems willing to paint his opponents as people who want millions to die, turn about is fair play.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Exactly. For his statement to have any meaning, he must necessarily be wishing for a significant economic downturn that would not only impact him, who I suspect would weather an economic downturn just fine, but also many, many others who would be devastated by such an event.

                        But hey, anything to get Bad Orange Man out of office, right? I just can't imagine what it's like to wake up everyday thinking, "I really hope my President screws up in a big way!" CS Lewis warned of such a mindset leading one to a point where they will only be satisfied with ever increasing evil.
                        It’s like sitting on an aircraft and hoping it will crash because you didn’t vote for the pilot.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Good news from the front: the few who are recovered and testing positive for antibodies are being cleared to return to work. Their numbers will grow in line with the ability to mass produce valid testing kits. We hear that testing kits are available and being imported from the East, but those are still to be approved.
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            It’s like sitting on an aircraft and hoping it will crash because you didn’t vote for the pilot.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Yes, how dare the President not stoke fears and incite panic by preaching doom and gloom to the nation! A real leader would have had us all so scared that we would be terrified to leave our houses for six-months!
                              While you conveniently ignored the last part of the post, repeated below:

                              Just a tidbit:
                              If one person is infected - tested positive - but was not isolated, that person will have infected over 15,000 people in 14 days, the number of days it takes between being infected and showing symptoms. Meaning the longer it takes to shutdown the country, the more infections you will get, and harder to stop it. Italy failed to do so, and we know what's happening there. The US will be even worse as there is no leadership on stopping this disease.
                              I know, it's math, way over your head. However, a real leader would consult those in the know and make better decisions. Regrettably the US will soon surpass China and Italy in infection cases and death toll, in spite of the fact we knew ahead of times this was coming and could have prepared sooner and more efficiently.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Some are continuing to downplay what is happening. Only fools ignore a clear exponential growth curve when it comes to a virus with a mortality more than sufficient to overrun our medical systems and leave millions dead in its wake.

                                First, the basic facts. An exponential growth curve is a straight line of positive slope on a logarithmic curve. Positive slope, for those less mathematically inclined means if goes up when looking from left to right.

                                These are the current global #cases and #deaths in their logarithmic form:

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]43616[/ATTACH]

                                Straight line since about the start of the second week in march. Remember, we are not in the clear until well after that curve shows a clear downward trending or 'flattened' form.
                                The US is basically the same (I hope I don't have to explain the slope appears to be less steep only because the horizontal time scale is spread out)

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]43617[/ATTACH]

                                and

                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]43618[/ATTACH]

                                If we 'go back to work' while these curves are still a straight line of positive slope, then by starting the social distancing but abandoning it before it can do its work, we will have done the worst possible thing we could have possibly done. We will have trashed the economy AND we'll still end up with a massive peak and overrun scenarios. We will have wasted ALL our resources AND done almost nothing to lower the death count and the effect of peak infection on our hospitals and our population.

                                We have one shot at this. We can't do it twice.

                                If the presidents actions have been questionable before now, if he abandons the social distancing half-way through the process, then he will have been the most foolish, most destructive president this nation has ever had.

                                IF we ramp up testing sufficiently that we can have high confidence we have identified most of the infected and quarantined them, then it might be possible to open up areas with low intrinsic rates of infection. But only then.
                                I like how New Zealand has handled it. They shut down everything very early into their spread and will likely remain unscathed at the end of this.

                                If you need to shut down anything then it needs to be effective, I don’t like how australia is doing it in stages. We are at stage 2 and if it’s not getting better we will go to stage 3 this week I believe. Just go to whatever the last stage is and just do it now instead of closing pubs for 6 months.

                                Comment

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