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Thread: Coronavirus Outbreak...

  1. #1401
    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Zym...when the argument is "the economy, the economy, the economy," the message is clear: the economy trumps everything (pun intended). We'll sell our souls to squeeze out another 1% GDP growth. That is a major part of what put Trump in the White House. We live in a society where the quest for money dominates pretty much everything else. We'll compromise our ecology for money. We'll support a clearly immoral man for the economy. We'll strip out programs to enable the poor because, "dammit - it's our money!"

    Yeah - I think most of the Republican party and most of the right has sold it's sold for mammon. In fact, it has tossed most of the core teachings of Jesus right out the window and used many of his words to endorse and foster some of the very things Jesus apparently spoke against, and downplay some of the various things Jesus apparent spoke for. In the process, they have created a form of "toxic Christianity" that has become unrecognizable as the religion based on one of the greatest teachers of history.

    And I think they will eventually pay a price for that. People are not blind - and eventually goodness wins out. Right now we are in the middle of a surge in hatred, polarization, and fear mongering. It is coming from all sides. Eventually, the tide will turn. It always does. The only question is, will the Christian right be part of leading that charge, or will they be an anchor striving to foster more hatred and animosity. So far, the latter appears more true than the former.

    ETA: I do like your sig!
    So you'll just double down on it...ok.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

  2. Amen Mountain Man, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #1402
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I would like to offer a sort of half-apology here. I get very, very frustrated with the impact of ideology on otherwise intelligent people. Pixie, MM, all this I debate continuously are intelligent people and capable of doing exactly what I've been doing in terms of looking at the data and deriving its implications. Some of my snarky comments are attempts to get them to take stock of where their paranoid bias against what they think of as 'liberals' (which unfortunately includes a large portion of those in the sciences) creates a blindness to the facts. The source must be some conservative pundit or it's suspect. And that means in this case raw data is suspect too.
    Thatís a great non apology, where you dismiss my Ďtold you your panic, over everything, was going to cost bigí point as well as itís possible to look at data and come to different conclusions. I donít think this COVID-19 thing is going to kill a 500k+ Americans, but I do think itís going to hit larger cities harder than less populated areas and may cause more death in the major cities than those who donít live in a city. I do see this thing as having a major impact on city life, world travel, cruise liners, and causing a reshuffling of our economy over the next 5-10 years. I also think the three years of calling everything a crisis and acting as every single action is enemies at the gate was dangerous 3 years ago. The media, experts, etc destroyed their own credibility, not Trump. They only have themselves to blame.

    But I realize some of those snarky comments come across as personal jabs. And I really DON'T want to be about the business of taking personal jabs at people. When I do that, I'm not trying to diminish you, I'm trying to get you to question your denial of basic facts and their logical conclusions all because you don't like the ideology of the potential source of those same facts. And it is destroying you, our country. We've got to move away from all this. It is a cancer on this site, and in our country. Covid-19 is real. The data is the data. If we can't work together on this, it will devastate us. This insanity of demonizing people based on their political party must stop. We need both sides to get it right.
    What basic facts have I denied Jim? The fact you have cried wolf too many times, to be taken seriously? The fact initial predictions of infections, hospitalizations, and death have been overblown by a factor of 2-3 times? That cites are going to be impacted more seriously? That Italy is the retirement capital of Europe and itís a bad idea to base models on US spread, hospitalizations, and death on Italy?

    Youíre welcome to explain what fact I got wrong. I can wait.

    Each side has a part of the truth. Each side has it's own set of blinders. Each side must learn to listen to the other side. No one has all the answers.
    And your blind to your three year chicken little dance has destroyed your credibility so that nobody believes you anymore.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  4. #1403
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Zym...when the argument is "the economy, the economy, the economy," the message is clear: the economy trumps everything (pun intended). We'll sell our souls to squeeze out another 1% GDP growth. That is a major part of what put Trump in the White House. We live in a society where the quest for money dominates pretty much everything else. We'll compromise our ecology for money. We'll support a clearly immoral man for the economy. We'll strip out programs to enable the poor because, "dammit - it's our money!"

    Yeah - I think most of the Republican party and most of the right has sold it's sold for mammon. In fact, it has tossed most of the core teachings of Jesus right out the window and used many of his words to endorse and foster some of the very things Jesus apparently spoke against, and downplay some of the various things Jesus apparent spoke for. In the process, they have created a form of "toxic Christianity" that has become unrecognizable as the religion based on one of the greatest teachers of history.

    And I think they will eventually pay a price for that. People are not blind - and eventually goodness wins out. Right now we are in the middle of a surge in hatred, polarization, and fear mongering. It is coming from all sides. Eventually, the tide will turn. It always does. The only question is, will the Christian right be part of leading that charge, or will they be an anchor striving to foster more hatred and animosity. So far, the latter appears more true than the former.

    ETA: I do like your sig! Please note that my language above is carefully chosen to reflect trend lines. You may be an exception to the rule. There are indeed pockets of resistance in the Christian right and Republican Party. They surface now and again to be heard. Hopefully, they will be heard more and more.
    Are you one of the millions of Americans wondering how youíre going to pay your bills next week, feed your family, etc? Your above shows how disconnected you seem to be from others. Most canít afford to sit at home, for a month.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  5. #1404
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    So you'll just double down on it...ok.
    For the most part, yes, I reaffirmed the position I hold and provided some of the reasons for it. However, I actually added to the post. You missed:

    "Please note that my language above is carefully chosen to reflect trend lines. You may be an exception to the rule. There are indeed pockets of resistance in the Christian right and Republican Party. They surface now and again to be heard. Hopefully, they will be heard more and more."
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  6. #1405
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Are you one of the millions of Americans wondering how youíre going to pay your bills next week, feed your family, etc?
    Next week? No. We are stocked and sheltered. However, I don't see the relevance of this question. Steps are being taken to provide for the needs of those in that position at the local, state, and federal levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Your above shows how disconnected you seem to be from others. Most canít afford to sit at home, for a month.
    It depends on how they are supported during that period of time, which is where we should be putting our attention.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  7. #1406
    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    For the most part, yes, I reaffirmed the position I hold and provided some of the reasons for it. However, I actually added to the post. You missed:

    "Please note that my language above is carefully chosen to reflect trend lines. You may be an exception to the rule. There are indeed pockets of resistance in the Christian right and Republican Party. They surface now and again to be heard. Hopefully, they will be heard more and more."
    How magnanimous of you, basically adding "present company excluded, maybe."

    Anyway, carry on. I'll go back to lurking...I expect it wouldn't be long before the "maybe" was retracted and my own character got attacked too.
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

  8. Amen Mountain Man, Cerebrum123, One Bad Pig amen'd this post.
  9. #1407
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Trump introduced "Chinese virus" late into the story...
    False.

    For your edification, a montage of liberal media types repeatedly using the term "Wuhan coronavirus" and "Chinese coronavirus", long before they started hypocritically condemning Trump for using the common name that they themselves had drilled into the public consciousness:



    You can also still find articles like these out there:

    nyt.jpg
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/02/h...mic-china.html

    cnn.jpg
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/healt...ent/index.html

    time.jpg
    https://time.com/5774366/how-coronavirus-spread-china/

    The Time one is interesting, because while the headline says "Wuhan Coronavirus", the title you see in your browser tab reads "China Coronovirus".

    So, no, Trump didn't start it, and he's not wrong to continue using the common name. I think his recent exchange with a reporter says it best:

    Idiot Reporter: "Why do you continue to call it the 'Chinese virus'?"

    President Trump: "Because it started in China."
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #1408
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I would like to offer a sort of half-apology here.
    Anybody who says, "I'm sorry, but..." really isn't sorry.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #1409
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Next week? No. We are stocked and sheltered. However, I don't see the relevance of this question. Steps are being taken to provide for the needs of those in that position at the local, state, and federal levels.
    Is it coming now or is it simply a promise aid is coming?

    It depends on how they are supported during that period of time, which is where we should be putting our attention.
    And what provides the money to support this stuff?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  12. #1410
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Anybody who says, "I'm sorry, but..." really isn't sorry.
    Wrong. I am not apologizing for calling you and others on willful ignorance. But I am sorry that I haven't figured out a way that makes the point but does not come across as a personal attack.

    You and pix and others have demonstrated ignorance with regards to this pandemic that is difficult to reconcile with your demonstrated intelligence. And that is a difficult thing to observe without wanting to find some way to correct the problem.
    He will reply, ĎTruly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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