Coronavirus Outbreak...

[rogue06]

So convening a task force is "doing something" to you? Rogue, we are "doing something" when we take the recommendations of that task force and implement actions designed to deal with the situation. Having a meeting to discuss/explore a problem is not the equivalent of taking meaningful action to effect change.

Funny coming from the side that treated it as a joke to be dismissed or who's primary goal is to absolve China and blame Trump and worry more about supposed racism than fighting this.

[NorrinRadd]

Trump ALWAYS seeks to shift the blame. If it is good - he takes credit. If it is bad - he finds someone to blame. That has been his hallmark not only for his entire presidency, but also his entire career, AFAICT. It is his MOP.

...

Yes, in this particular way he is exactly like LITERALLY EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN.

[NorrinRadd]

Fascinating article full of charts and graphs.

It disputes a lot of the "conventional wisdom," and the resulting draconian edicts and Big Gubmint "remedies."

[shunyadragon]

Funny coming from the side that treated it as a joke to be dismissed or who's primary goal is to absolve China and blame Trump and worry more about supposed racism than fighting this.

Blame both China and Trump for the late response and denial of the seriousness of the coronavirus.

[firstfloor]

Fascinating article full of charts and graphs.

It disputes a lot of the "conventional wisdom," and the resulting draconian edicts and Big Gubmint "remedies."

In the league table, the US is shooting up towards third place behind Italy. It's not just about the death rate. Permanent and horrible lung injury awaits many more.

[shunyadragon]

Yes, in this particular way he is exactly like LITERALLY EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN.

Generalization without substance. Obama consulted and followed his science advisors. Trump hide in the closet until the coronavirus got in the closet.

[RumTumTugger]

Fascinating article full of charts and graphs.

It disputes a lot of the "conventional wisdom," and the resulting draconian edicts and Big Gubmint "remedies."

should be read very carefully he may be a bit naive in his conclusions.

This thread on Twitter gives us food for thought on his conclusions.

https://twitter.com/willchamberlain/...80220415901697

[carpedm9587]

um what? Have you looked at Italy?

Read my post carefully, Sparko - it says "many," not all. Some of the countries with excellent survivability rates include Sweden, Norway, Canada, and Finland, to name a few. Yes, there are also outliers like Italy. But if you look at the death rates, they skew towards lower for most of these countries.

This is a habit many people have: take a claim about trending, find an outlier that does not conform, and use it as evidence that the claim is not valid. If you want to show a claim about trends not valid, you have to show the trend to be different - not cite a single case. That's statistics 101.

[carpedm9587]

Don't be a dishonest twit Carp. My OP in that thread explained exactly who I was speaking of.

I said nothing about your OP, Seer, so your comment is inapplicable. People see the title of the thread first, which is what I was commenting on. And, as you have sort of admitted, and others have previously pointed out, you are not above using titles that serve as click bait.

[carpedm9587]

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Yes - there are some at high death rates. But if you scan the lower part of the list, you find more single-payer countries low down on the list than high up on the list. Indeed, since the discussion in the U.S. is currently about a possible single-payer system, use the U.S. as a cut-off and see what percentage of single-payer countries are faring better than the U.S. and what percentage are faring worse. It's interesting to examine the distribution.

[carpedm9587]

Fair enough. I am focussed on trying to differentiate between government and people, and I agree with you - and have been advocating - that the finger pointing at the chinese government handling of this leads right back to our own governments bungled response.

That is not to say that what the Chinese government did was not bad. It was bad. But then again, so is what Trump has done in trying to play it down and dragging his feet and not rebuking those news outlets that sold a whole lot of misinformation in their attempts to support his ignorance.

I believe Trumps actions are based on ignorantly trying to preserve those elements that he believes will get him re-elected. I don't see that as any less immoral a motivation for misleading the public and trying to hide information about the virus than the elements that motivated the communist government of china to try to hide the information about the virus there in its early stages.

The problem is not in identifying both sets of actions as bad and laying that blame at the feet of each government. The problem is excusing one set of bad actions by trying to make a scape goat out of the other.

I agree with all of these points. Frankly, I don't think Trump can help himself. His ego and need to be "right" coupled with his tendency to speak "off the cuff" and often be wrong will likely continue unabated. In combination, they have been a source of some amazingly bad information. In the midst of a crisis, his amazingly bad information is a significant threat to the country. I think the nation is going to clearly see, over the coming weeks, very clearly what kind of horrendous leader we have in the executive office and the cost to the country of supporting him. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me to see some of his base finally abandon him. Not many, mind you - mostly the ones sitting at the more moderate edge. Maybe the ones who lose a loved one to the coronavirus. But it wouldn't take many of his base to abandon him for him to go down.

[seanD]

Fascinating article full of charts and graphs.

It disputes a lot of the "conventional wisdom," and the resulting draconian edicts and Big Gubmint "remedies."

Defense Production Act scares me, though I'm not surprised. It looks like yet another instance where they took advantage of a crisis (i.e the (un)Patriot Act) to pass insane government overreach policy they could have NEVER passed otherwise.

[carpedm9587]

Defense Production Act scares me, though I'm not surprised. It looks like yet another instance where they took advantage of a crisis (i.e the (un)Patriot Act) to pass insane government overreach policy they could have NEVER passed otherwise.

That was my first reaction too. Between the emergency declaration and invoking this act, we are seeing the start of flexing presidential muscle. For now, I think both of these are warranted by the situation. It passes my "how would I be reacting if Obama did this?" test. But this president is not above using the situation to seize power, so we should all be watching carefully. I'm waiting to hear the words "martial law." Uttered by a man with dictatorial tendencies supported by a base that has shown admiration for strongmen and tends to follow an "authoritarian" model generally, they would be scary words indeed.

[rogue06]

Blame both China and Trump for the late response and denial of the seriousness of the coronavirus.

Trump was working on it months ago. And what was the left doing? Mocking and deriding him for it. That and complaining that the task force he created wasn't diverse enough. Even today worrying about supposed racism is their primary concern.

The main problem was that the Chicoms were lying through their teeth about it giving everyone the impression that it wasn't all that serious so that it caught everyone off guard.

[carpedm9587]

I have wondered about the China situation for a while. After 19 days with growth between 0.0% and 0.25%, it turns out their numbers are largely meaningless. Note that their case count has stayed close to flat for 19 days at around 81,300, but their recovery count is now at 91,540 with 12,755 deaths reported. So, interestingly, only 81,304 have contracted the illness, but 104,295 have recovered or died. Amazing that...