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  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    So, again, how did "Trump has badly bungled this" get translated to "It is expected that a president will do this perfectly?"

    The issue is not perfection, or how much better anyone else could do this or what mistakes anyone made in the past. The question is, how many perfectly avoidable mistakes have been made? A bad reagent in the development of a testing kit is a happenstance that could not be foreseen. Spending days/weeks declaring this "under control" and "a non-issue" and choosing NOT to use an existing and demonstrably effective testing protocol are decisions that can and should be called into question.

    The fact that he is NOT doing the best job possible, and is again acting and talking and choosing in his own best interests is the entire point. We didn't get "wartime president" until the situation was so evidently a problem the man in the executive office couldn't spin his way out of it. Even now, despite invoking the Defense Production Act, he's sitting on his hands instead of ordering the manufacture of critically needed supplies that are in critically short supply (hand sanitizer, swaps for testing, test kits, ventilators, etc.).

    As for being my president, no thanks. I'm over 60 years old, and I have never uttered the words "not my president," no matter how much I disagreed with the policies or practices of the holder of that office - including Nixon. But I have never put "president" in front of Trump and I will never accept him as "my president." His behavior and actions in that office do not justify my granting him that honorific. IMO, he is keeping the chair warm until he can be replaced by someone who knows how to do the job and can represent the best values of America. Lying, bullying, vengeance seeking, cozying up with and defending the worst leaders in the world, and extreme narcissism are not on that list.
    I don't think Trump handled it badly. I think the American people are handling it badly. There seems to be no middle ground.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      I don't think Trump handled it badly. I think the American people are handling it badly. There seems to be no middle ground.
      For the president of the United States to stand before people while the WHO is declaring a pandemic and transmission is surging in countries around the world, and declare, in so many words, "no problem here, folks, we have it under control" is a travesty. Telling the American public "we are very close to a vaccine," when medical experts were saying "12-18 months" is a travesty. Shutting down much of the infrastructure designed to respond to a pandemic in an endless quest to destroy anything that began with Obama is a travesty. Continually downplaying a pandemic, resulting in a huge swath of the American public NOT taking it seriously and NOT acting in their own best interests, is a travesty. Publicly announcing that he wouldn't want a cruise ship to dock or disembark because it would make the numbers look bad is a travesty. The leadership from the executive office has been abysmal, IMO. Although he is finally showing some signs of leadership, all of it is late and time is a significant factor here. Pence was named to take point 5 weeks after the first case. Last Monday was the first time state labs were given clearance to develop/produce testing locally. The story of the Trump response is a story of ineptitude and self-aggrandizement - and continues in that vein.

      Sorry, Bill. A leader who only follows is not much of a leader.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        For the president of the United States to stand before people while the WHO is declaring a pandemic and transmission is surging in countries around the world, and declare, in so many words, "no problem here, folks, we have it under control" is a travesty. Telling the American public "we are very close to a vaccine," when medical experts were saying "12-18 months" is a travesty. Shutting down much of the infrastructure designed to respond to a pandemic in an endless quest to destroy anything that began with Obama is a travesty. Continually downplaying a pandemic, resulting in a huge swath of the American public NOT taking it seriously and NOT acting in their own best interests, is a travesty. Publicly announcing that he wouldn't want a cruise ship to dock or disembark because it would make the numbers look bad is a travesty. The leadership from the executive office has been abysmal, IMO. Although he is finally showing some signs of leadership, all of it is late and time is a significant factor here. Pence was named to take point 5 weeks after the first case. Last Monday was the first time state labs were given clearance to develop/produce testing locally. The story of the Trump response is a story of ineptitude and self-aggrandizement - and continues in that vein.

        Sorry, Bill. A leader who only follows is not much of a leader.
        So panic buying pallets of toilet paper, hand soap, and disinfectant is a much better option? Fact is:

        If you’re under 70.
        Not a smoker.
        Have good health.

        It’s very unlikely to kill you. Thus far, the panic appears worse than the disease itself.

        BTW, half of the above is fake news. Might want to inform yourself before you accuse others of what you’re doing.
        Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-19-2020, 10:01 AM.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          As for being my president, no thanks. I'm over 60 years old, and I have never uttered the words "not my president," no matter how much I disagreed with the policies or practices of the holder of that office - including Nixon. But I have never put "president" in front of Trump and I will never accept him as "my president." His behavior and actions in that office do not justify my granting him that honorific. IMO, he is keeping the chair warm until he can be replaced by someone who knows how to do the job and can represent the best values of America. Lying, bullying, vengeance seeking, cozying up with and defending the worst leaders in the world, and extreme narcissism are not on that list.
          People like you are the absolute worst America has to offer. The first president to put the American people first instead of trying to replace them with foreign mercenaries or get involved in new, stupid wars that waste billions of dollars and thousands of lives is the one that draws your ire the most.

          Americans seem to be waking up to the globalist scam traitors like you have been running for the last few decades. We can only hope people like you are made to answer for your many heinous crimes in this life. You certainly won't like what happens in the next.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            It’s very unlikely to kill you. Thus far, the panic appears worse than the disease itself.
            There hasn't been any real panic but there does seem to have been a massive outbreak of short-sighted stupidity among conservatives who don't seem to understand that the point of the measures are preventive. You don't wait for bodies to pile up in the street before you take action against a pandemic. This point seems completely lost on most of you.
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              So panic buying pallets of toilet paper, hand soap, and disinfectant is a much better option? Fact is:

              If you’re under 70.
              Not a smoker.
              Have good health.

              It’s very unlikely to kill you. Thus far, the panic appears worse than the disease itself.

              BTW, half of the above is fake news. Might want to inform yourself before you accuse others of what you’re doing.
              It is "unlikely" to kill any given person, given that a morality rate of 1% is a survival rate of 99%, so that statement is largely meaningless. Cancer is "unlikely" to kill any given person. That does not change the fact that a rapidly spreading virus with at least 10 times the mortality rate of the flu is a danger. And those who do not meet your criteria ARE at risk, and increasingly at risk if those who DO meet your criteria to not take precautions to keep themselves from getting infected - or slow the rate of infection.

              BTW - all of the things I listed actually happened. Feel free to point to a single thing that you believe is not accurate and I can provide the documentation to support it.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                People like you are the absolute worst America has to offer. The first president to put the American people first instead of trying to replace them with foreign mercenaries or get involved in new, stupid wars that waste billions of dollars and thousands of lives is the one that draws your ire the most.

                Americans seem to be waking up to the globalist scam traitors like you have been running for the last few decades. We can only hope people like you are made to answer for your many heinous crimes in this life. You certainly won't like what happens in the next.
                Your opinion is noted, Darth. Thanks for your post.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  So, again, how did "Trump has badly bungled this" get translated to "It is expected that a president will do this perfectly?"
                  The fact is Carp, he did not bungle it badly, at least no worse than most other leaders (except maybe in South Korea or Germany). Second, even though there were early missteps Trump is fully up to speed. The governors of the two worst infected states (New York and California) have nothing but praise for Trump and his response. I just listen to Como again this morning. And they are on the front lines.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    It is "unlikely" to kill any given person, given that a morality rate of 1% is a survival rate of 99%, so that statement is largely meaningless.
                    It’s not meaningless at all because I’m sure you know how populations work. Most of the deaths have been among those that are older, smokers, or have other health conditions. If you do not fit into these three risk factors, it appears your odds of survival greatly increase beyond 1 in 100. It appears closer to 1 in 1000 or more because we don’t know lots of factors yet. Such as the role asymptomatic people play in spreading the illness, if it’s possible for children to be carriers, but not sick, etc.

                    Cancer is "unlikely" to kill any given person. That does not change the fact that a rapidly spreading virus with at least 10 times the mortality rate of the flu is a danger. And those who do not meet your criteria ARE at risk, and increasingly at risk if those who DO meet your criteria to not take precautions to keep themselves from getting infected - or slow the rate of infection.
                    You’re not understanding the argument and attacking strawman. You’re talking GP vs group risk factors. Cancer death depends on type, stage, age, sex, etc risk factors which will change up the odds of survival in a specific case. That’s how most disease, conditions, or injuries work. The point I have made is if you’re not in the risk factor group, you’re odds of survival greatly increase. Those spring breakers partying down in Florida are likely not going to die from it. The risk more is them spreading it to increased risk factor groups as they head home.

                    BTW - all of the things I listed actually happened. Feel free to point to a single thing that you believe is not accurate and I can provide the documentation to support it.
                    Trump did not shut down any response teams. That’s a lie that even the AP and snopes have debunked.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                      It’s not meaningless at all because I’m sure you know how populations work. Most of the deaths have been among those that are older, smokers, or have other health conditions. If you do not fit into these three risk factors, it appears your odds of survival greatly increase beyond 1 in 100. It appears closer to 1 in 1000 or more because we don’t know lots of factors yet. Such as the role asymptomatic people play in spreading the illness, if it’s possible for children to be carriers, but not sick, etc.



                      You’re not understanding the argument and attacking strawman. You’re talking GP vs group risk factors. Cancer death depends on type, stage, age, sex, etc risk factors which will change up the odds of survival in a specific case. That’s how most disease, conditions, or injuries work. The point I have made is if you’re not in the risk factor group, you’re odds of survival greatly increase. Those spring breakers partying down in Florida are likely not going to die from it. The risk more is them spreading it to increased risk factor groups as they head home.



                      Trump did not shut down any response teams. That’s a lie that even the AP and snopes have debunked.
                      The Pandemic Response Team, put in place by the Obama administration, was disbanded in May of 2018, and if i'm not mistaken I believe Trump was president at the time.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                        There hasn't been any real panic but there does seem to have been a massive outbreak of short-sighted stupidity among conservatives who don't seem to understand that the point of the measures are preventive. You don't wait for bodies to pile up in the street before you take action against a pandemic. This point seems completely lost on most of you.
                        And how do we know these are 100% necessary? What are the risk factor groups most at risk? How will people pay their bills if the economy collapses? I don’t know where you’ve been, but I’ve seen tons of panic among many people, with many stores running out of cleaning supplies, food items, medicine, ammo, etc.
                        Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 03-19-2020, 10:44 AM.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          The Pandemic Response Team, put in place by the Obama administration, was disbanded in May of 2018, and if i'm not mistaken I believe Trump was president at the time.
                          No it wasn’t. This has been debunked. Stop with the fake news, Jimmy.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            The fact is Carp, he did not bungle it badly, at least no worse than most other leaders (except maybe in South Korea or Germany). Second, even though there were early missteps Trump is fully up to speed. The governors of the two worst infected states (New York and California) have nothing but praise for Trump and his response. I just listen to Como again this morning. And they are on the front lines.
                            "Did not bungle it badly" is fantasy. However, being able to face the items carpe listed and comprehend they are the definition of 'bungled it' is a prerequisite to rational conversation on the issue.

                            I would be interested in understanding exactly how you rationalize the things in that list though. That might be good first step to bridging your cognitive gap between fantasy and reality.
                            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 03-19-2020, 10:56 AM.
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              No it wasn’t. This has been debunked. Stop with the fake news, Jimmy.
                              As a team focused on pandemic response - they were disbanded and reassigned. So exactly what constitutes 'debunked' in your mind?
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                As a team focused on pandemic response - they were disbanded and reassigned. So exactly what constitutes 'debunked' in your mind?
                                Apparently you haven’t bothered to read what rogue had posted. Maybe it’s the TDS again.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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