Coronavirus Outbreak...

[Bill the Cat]

Continuing to play the rabid partisan game is not in our best interests. .

Yet you STILL take your daily digs at the President...

[carpedm9587]

The above defense of Rand Paul choosing to test out of caution "because he's powerful" now fails, because Paul has chosen not even to self-quarantine in the first place. So what was even the point?

I think he is self-quarantining now. The issue being discussed publicly, AFAIK, was his decision to NOT self-quarantine during that window between when he was tested and when he got the results. Several members of congress who have reason to believe they've been exposed are doing just that. Rand did not. It will be interesting to see the impact of this on Congress itself. The average age of Representatives is 58-59 and for Senators it is around 62-63. House leadership averages in the 70s!

[carpedm9587]

Yet you STILL take your daily digs at the President...

Unlike most of the GOP leadership, many of us are willing to call Trump out when he acts foolishly or dangerously as well as compliment him when he does well. Unfortunately, there is a lot of the former and not a lot of the latter. His decision to declare a national emergency is a good example of the latter. So is his decision to invoke the Defense Production Act. His failure to follow through on either in critical ways is an example of the latter. His encouragement of social distancing and not touching one's face is an example of the latter. Putting economy over life/health is an example of the latter.

Criticizing a president that merits criticism is not partisanship unless the criticism is unfounded.

[KingsGambit]

I think he is self-quarantining now. The issue being discussed publicly, AFAIK, was his decision to NOT self-quarantine during that window between when he was tested and when he got the results. Several members of congress who have reason to believe they've been exposed are doing just that. Rand did not. It will be interesting to see the impact of this on Congress itself. The average age of Representatives is 58-59 and for Senators it is around 62-63. House leadership averages in the 70s!

You are correct on that; I had been misinformed on that count.

I am unconvinced that remote voting for Congress passes constitutional muster because the Constitution's wordings do imply that it takes place in a given location. I am also concerned about the security of any telecommunications attempts on that count. But it may be the least bad option.

[seanD]

I think he is self-quarantining now. The issue being discussed publicly, AFAIK, was his decision to NOT self-quarantine during that window between when he was tested and when he got the results. Several members of congress who have reason to believe they've been exposed are doing just that. Rand did not. It will be interesting to see the impact of this on Congress itself. The average age of Representatives is 58-59 and for Senators it is around 62-63. House leadership averages in the 70s!

Was there any reason he got tested? Did he show signs, or he did it just out of caution? If the latter is true, there was no reason for him to suspect he was infected, therefore no reason for him to have taken measures to quarantine himself.

[oxmixmudd]

Yet you STILL take your daily digs at the President...

I'm afraid at best what you'll find in context with the post you respond to is indirect. I am critical of Trump, but I also was quite clear that his caution about the cure being worse than the disease is legitimate.

What you, and rogue, and MM (and others) completely fail to understand is that I'm about the truth, and what is right. Period. Whenever Trump is actually on the wagon of truth and what is right - I'll be able and willing to acknowledge it - just as I have in several posts today. I am not partisan. I am about the Truth. That means I get that without industry we don't have jobs or an economy. I get that fiscal conservatism is a plus. But I also get we are ruining our climate in the name of greed and ignorance. And that corporate executive often exploit the poor and the needy to fatten their paychecks.

I will be critical of what is wrong no matter who it is, no matter what ideology, political party, tribe, race or religion they hail from. And I will be willing to praise what is good likewise. I could care less what their stupid label is, religious, geographical, cultural, or political.

We need to work together to stop this. We need to drop the political trappings and do what is right to the best we can - all of us.

[seanD]

Unlike most of the GOP leadership, many of us are willing to call Trump out when he acts foolishly or dangerously as well as compliment him when he does well. Unfortunately, there is a lot of the former and not a lot of the latter. His decision to declare a national emergency is a good example of the latter. So is his decision to invoke the Defense Production Act. His failure to follow through on either in critical ways is an example of the latter. His encouragement of social distancing and not touching one's face is an example of the latter. Putting economy over life/health is an example of the latter.

Criticizing a president that merits criticism is not partisanship unless the criticism is unfounded.

What do you think about DOJ trying to use this crisis to suspend habeas corpus?

[oxmixmudd]

There was some discussion a few days ago about Germany and a very low mortality rate of about .24%. The latest is 0.45% - almost double. As expected of a nation doing a good bit of testing, as more time elapses and more people make progress through the disease, the mortality increases. And while ~.5% is lower than the typical seen (>1%), it is still 5x that of the flu. Germany is also experiencing massive growth in # of cases, and perhaps more importantly, the slope of their logarithmic death rate curve is steeper than that of the logarithmic cases curve, meaning that the mortality rate will continue to increase., at least for now.

[oxmixmudd]

What do you think about DOJ trying to use this crisis to suspend habeas corpus?

NO! Talk about using the covid-19 as an excuse for a power grab!!! Wow.

[carpedm9587]

You are correct on that; I had been misinformed on that count.

I am unconvinced that remote voting for Congress passes constitutional muster because the Constitution's wordings do imply that it takes place in a given location. I am also concerned about the security of any telecommunications attempts on that count. But it may be the least bad option.

This is one of the many ways in which the constitution needs to be interpreted in light of recent changes and circumstances. The FFs had no vision of the kind of virtual presence that is possible today, so the only way one could vote from a remote location was to do so in writing and sending it on, or conveying their vote by a messenger, neither of which is immune from compromise. Real-time virtual presence is a whole order of difference, allowing people to be in a different location virtually, representing themselves via real-time video/audio. IMO, it would take a constitutional literalist to see it any other way.

Of course, there is a good chance that the textual purists will actually stand against this position because it opens the door to interpretation which is a "slippery slope." I wonder if anyone using that argument understands that "slippery slope" is actually a logical fallacy?

[carpedm9587]

Was there any reason he got tested? Did he show signs, or he did it just out of caution? If the latter is true, there was no reason for him to suspect he was infected, therefore no reason for him to have taken measures to quarantine himself.

As best I can tell, he had part of a lung removed last year and was worried about the impact if he was infected. I cannot find any report that he felt ill before being tested. That doesn't mean he didn't, but I have not found a report that indicates he was. Primarily, he was apparently worried about possibly having been exposed.

IMO, if you are worried enough about being exposed to get tested, you should be worried enough about spreading it to self-quarantine. Rand is a doctor. He should know better.

[carpedm9587]

What do you think about DOJ trying to use this crisis to suspend habeas corpus?

This is the first I hear of it, but I am not in favor. Unlike the emergency declaration and invoking the Defense Production Act (which he still has not leveraged to any benefit that I can see), I see no justification for suspending habeas corpus at this time. That is a radical step, only one step short of declaring martial law. This administration is too enamored of strong men for me to be comfortable with either of those steps at this time.

[firstfloor]

Are many on board with the governments reversal on the lock down?

The public know that if we all act together, we can change course in a few weeks. Distancing measures will have to continue as long as there is a significant threat. We just cannot sustain any sort of growth in the infection rate because it easily overwhelms any ability to offer treatment.

[seanD]

This is the first I hear of it, but I am not in favor. Unlike the emergency declaration and invoking the Defense Production Act (which he still has not leveraged to any benefit that I can see), I see no justification for suspending habeas corpus at this time. That is a radical step, only one step short of declaring martial law. This administration is too enamored of strong men for me to be comfortable with either of those steps at this time.

It's not at all surprising to me you haven't heard of it. Why do you think Dems constantly bring up fake stories to bolster the "Orange Man bad" narrative (like the fake claim he cut the CDC budget, to name just one, or the whole what he meant by "hoax" great debate), yet totally ignore REAL actions like this? Other than Political, Rolling Stone, and some other smaller news networks, I've not seen one story in the MSM about this. What the DOJ is trying to do seems like it has nothing to do with the crisis and seems like something you can legitimately criticize the president for, yet they remain silent. Why is that?

[carpedm9587]

Are many on board with the governments reversal on the lock down?

Was this about the reversal happening in the U.S.?

If so, since the reversal is coming from Trump, I think we can safely predict that his base will largely fall in line. Hopefully, the rest of us will listen to the medical community and medical experts. Personally, based on the available information, I think it is premature to roll back social distancing initiatives.