Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Coronavirus Outbreak...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    To be fair, I think this is a case of, “Be careful what you wish for because it might happen,” but since he seems willing to paint his opponents as people who want millions to die, turn about is fair play.
    At no point did I say I think anyone on the right "wants millions to die," nor do I think this. It is a strawman. If you think otherwise, please link the post. If you cannot/do not and repeat the assertion, you will be slipping back into lying.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 03-27-2020, 01:42 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Current new cases 18k per day, rate increasing.

      In recent days, a growing contingent of Trump supporters have pushed the narrative that health experts are part of a deep-state plot to hurt Trump’s reelection efforts by damaging the economy and keeping the United States shut down as long as possible. Trump himself pushed this idea in the early days of the outbreak, calling warnings on coronavirus a kind of “hoax” meant to undermine him.


      The notion is deeply troubling, say leading health experts, because what the country does next and how many people die depend largely on what evidence U.S. leaders and the public use to inform their decisions. Epidemiologists worry their research — intended to avert massive deaths in situations exactly like this pandemic — will be dismissed by federal leaders when it is needed most.
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...litized-trump/
      Last edited by firstfloor; 03-27-2020, 02:06 PM.
      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
      “not all there” - you know who you are

      Comment


      • India having only 800-something cases just doesn't sound right for a country that large. Something is wrong with that data. probably due to low numbers of testing.

        China having less than the USA is a function of China lying through their teeth. I bet its more like a million.
        Last edited by Sparko; 03-27-2020, 02:27 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          At no point did I say I think anyone on the right "wants millions to die," nor do I think this. It is a strawman. If you think otherwise, please link the post. If you cannot/do not and repeat the assertion, you will be slipping back into lying.
          Your own words:

          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Well - not to be a stick in the mud, but "the worst possible thing we could have possibly done" is Trumpesque in it's hyperbole. We could actually start a campaign to actively promote breathing and coughing on each other so that we maximize infections and deaths and shorten the timeframe of the infection. At the end of it we might have 3-5 million people dead, but the people remcaining would be immune (presumably) and we could quickly restart our economy with plenty of jobs for all!
          Don’t worry, I know you’ll never admit you’re wrong to me, just as you’ll never admit that you saying you hope of economic suffering, to ‘get Trump’ was a bad thing. It was no lie at all, it just makes you look really bad, thus you pretend it wasn’t as bad as it sounded and your doubling down on it, makes it that much worse.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            India having only 800-something cases just doesn't sound right for a country that large. Something is wrong with that data. probably due to low numbers of testing.

            China having less than the USA is a function of China lying through their teeth. I bet its more like a million.
            There is some speculation they have not actually been able to turn the tide. But Korea did using the same methods, so unless we start seeing abject in failure places that impose the same sort of restrictions they did (or whatever is close within the context of a free society) I don't think there is a real reason to suspect some sort of hidden major catastrophe.

            We - OTOH - dragged our feet and have not mobilized the resources required to see a turn in the tide. That is our own fault.

            IOW, it's not like we haven't seen the sort of isolation they used work in much the same way as their reported results would indicate. The reason we are exceeding them is that we did NOT do what S. Korea did. We did not take immediate and decisive action to stop it.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • FYI, I’m case Carp tries to weasel out:

              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              I said 3.5 years ago that we would all need to be willing to suffer a bit in order to rid ourselves of this man. Personally, I'm willing to see most of my retirement nest egg vaporized if it means he is not re-elected in November.

              I suspect many on the right are not truly grasping just how strongly those of us who oppose this man want to see him gone, and are willing to sacrifice if that is what it takes. Every election since 2016 has told the same story: the left and moderates are angry and motivated. Elections that should have been a slam dunk have been a tight squeeze, even if they did ultimately swing right. I think November is going to be the beginning of the end of this Trump-led travesty. Hopefully, if that happens, what remains of the Republican party will examine itself, reconsider its choices, and re-find its soul.
              Be careful what you wish for...
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                Current new cases 18k per day, rate increasing.



                https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...litized-trump/
                The death rate in Germany, BTW, continues to climb. It is now up to .67% from yesterday. Up from .62% this morning. They have done aggressive early testing and found many cases that would otherwise have been undetected. That skewed their early numbers low. But they are now on a steep rise, but have some fairly aggressive social distancing requirements. That is in itself scary.
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  There is some speculation they have not actually been able to turn the tide. But Korea did using the same methods, so unless we start seeing abject in failure places that impose the same sort of restrictions they did (or whatever is close within the context of a free society) I don't think there is a real reason to suspect some sort of hidden major catastrophe.

                  We - OTOH - dragged our feet and have not mobilized the resources required to see a turn in the tide. That is our own fault.

                  IOW, it's not like we haven't seen the sort of isolation they used work in much the same way as their reported results would indicate. The reason we are exceeding them is that we did NOT do what S. Korea did. We did not take immediate and decisive action to stop it.
                  as I posted in another thread, there were reports coming out of China by whistlblowers claiming they had 90,000 cases in January. China reported less than 2,000 at that time. Extrapolate that out and the actual cases are probably around a million or more. There was also an incident early on when China accidentally released a much higher number, then a few minutes later changed it to a lower number and claimed it was a mistake. You can't trust China's numbers. They are more interested in saving face than the truth.

                  And I have read stories about how India's number are probably much higher because they are not testing enough.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    as I posted in another thread, there were reports coming out of China by whistlblowers claiming they had 90,000 cases in January. China reported less than 2,000 at that time. Extrapolate that out and the actual cases are probably around a million or more. There was also an incident early on when China accidentally released a much higher number, then a few minutes later changed it to a lower number and claimed it was a mistake. You can't trust China's numbers. They are more interested in saving face than the truth.

                    And I have read stories about how India's number are probably much higher because they are not testing enough.
                    Yeah - I have no way of evaluating such reports. The one thing that is beginning to stand out is that even in countries that are practicing fairly intense social distancing we are seeing steep rises in cases and deaths. If that continues to be the case, it would support the idea China is not being honest in its report of the impact of the disease there. But it could also indicate that short of the virtual imprisonment China imposed, the spread of the disease is very hard to stop.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      India having only 800-something cases just doesn't sound right for a country that large. Something is wrong with that data. probably due to low numbers of testing.

                      China having less than the USA is a function of China lying through their teeth. I bet its more like a million.
                      Just today The Atlantic is saying that India has "conducted the fewest number of tests of any country with confirmed cases of the coronavirus" and their allowing laboratories to charge $60 per test in a country where many make $7 per month is part of the problem.

                      Also from today, according to the Economic Times of India, it appears that what they just started doing are serological tests, which detect if someone once had the Chicom coronavirus not if they are currently infected.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Yeah - I have no way of evaluating such reports. The one thing that is beginning to stand out is that even in countries that are practicing fairly intense social distancing we are seeing steep rises in cases and deaths. If that continues to be the case, it would support the idea China is not being honest in its report of the impact of the disease there. But it could also indicate that short of the virtual imprisonment China imposed, the spread of the disease is very hard to stop.
                        I am not questioning that their methods are working... now. I am questioning how high the actual numbers got before they implemented them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          I am not questioning that their methods are working... now. I am questioning how high the actual numbers got before they implemented them.
                          interesting. It could easily be a reality I suppose. Not to disparage your concern, I view it as legitimate, I would say that mostly the percentages they reported tend to match what we are seeing world wide. Around 1% in areas prepared for it and where the disease does not overrun the medical system. 4% or so otherwise. One of those things we likely won't know for sure for a while anyway.

                          In terms of the disease, I am less concerned about China right now than the western world. We are being slammed hard. But Russia seems unscathed. China appears t have it under control. That is not a good position when the free world is weak and under attack from a disease and the two most powerful totalitarian regimes are either unhindered by it, or have mostly turned a corner on it.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            as I posted in another thread, there were reports coming out of China by whistlblowers claiming they had 90,000 cases in January. China reported less than 2,000 at that time. Extrapolate that out and the actual cases are probably around a million or more. There was also an incident early on when China accidentally released a much higher number, then a few minutes later changed it to a lower number and claimed it was a mistake. You can't trust China's numbers. They are more interested in saving face than the truth.

                            And I have read stories about how India's number are probably much higher because they are not testing enough.
                            Likewise you have North Korea proclaiming that they have no cases of the Chicom coronavirus (reports out of South Korea say otherwise), but they've been requesting aid to help combat it.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              Your own words:



                              Don’t worry, I know you’ll never admit you’re wrong to me, just as you’ll never admit that you saying you hope of economic suffering, to ‘get Trump’ was a bad thing. It was no lie at all, it just makes you look really bad, thus you pretend it wasn’t as bad as it sounded and your doubling down on it, makes it that much worse.
                              Oh for pity's sake - that post was made to point out that Ox's statement about "worst case" was not worst case at all, and there could be worst cases. At no point have I ever actually wanted those deaths to occur.

                              I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for reading the post as a serious desire on my part (though how anyone could think someone would actually want such a thing is beyond me). But now that I have clarified the meaning and intent and my actual opinion, if you persist in posting that I want such things, you will be lying. I've clearly now explained the post and told you otherwise.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                                FYI, I’m case Carp tries to weasel out:

                                Be careful what you wish for...
                                Again, "willing to sacrifice" is not "wishing we had to sacrifice."

                                I might be willing to see my house destroyed by a flood if it will save my neighbor's house. That doesn't mean I WANT my house to be destroyed by a flood.

                                There are two possibilities: you are too simple-minded to understand this distinction, or you are intentionally perpetuating a lie. I do not believe you simple-minded.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                78 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                52 responses
                                274 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                195 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                83 responses
                                352 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Working...
                                X