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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I live quite comfortably at $30K/yr. Of course I'm not that into possessions, not needing this or that latest gadget or "must have" item of the year. Of course my place is paid off and I own my car as well which makes a big difference.
    That seems very low for a double-nought spy.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      And THAT's what I mean by "we're all in this together. Way to go Mr. Tsai!

      Maybe, with everyone pitching in, we can fill in the gap in leadership at the top.
      as long as they actually work, that is.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Italy: Banned inbound travelers from China one day after first infection found, and closure was absolute (all travelers).
        U.S.: Banned inbound travelers from China who were not U.S. citizens 11 days after first infection found with 11 exceptions (including such small places as Hong Kong).

        And yes, Dems were wrong to condemn the action, but given 4+ years of anti-immigration action from the Trump administration, their objection was wrong but understandable. Everyone was in "is this going to be a thing?" mode at that time.

        There is not much reason to overly praise the administration here. They took a minimal action which was followed by piecemeal border closures for the next six weeks. And there is STILL no nationwide "shelter-in-place" order (8 states, all red, are still not issuing them) or limits on interstate travel.
        Because such orders are the job of the state governors. States have autonomy in such things. they know their state better than the federal government does. Some states like North Dakota have such dispersed populations that they might not need a stay-at-home order. It's up to the governor to decide.

        MM is right, you guys complain that Trump is a wanna-be dictator in one breath and in the next breath complain because he isn't acting like one.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          The arguments supporting those assertions have been made thoroughly in my previous posts. If you can't be bothered to read them, I'm not going to bother to repost. Besides, history suggests you'll:

          a) handwave it away:
          b) create a strawman and fight vigorously against it
          c) take off on a tangent to divert the discussion
          d) delete any parts of the post you cannot respond to and do a) through c) for the rest.

          You, Sparko, Pix, Rogue, SeanD, Darth, and Demi are largely peas in a pod. Seer's a close runner-up. You subscribe to the Trump school of trolling and it's largely a waste of my time. And so is this exchange. I should have known better than to respond to you. Last word to you.

          Translation: WAAAAHHH I can't argue against you so I will pretend to be above such things and run away...

          and yet you won't leave. Just stop using this stupid tactic.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            What are you talking about? On Feb.17 (not the 24th) Fauci said the risk to the American people was minuscule.

            https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4787209002/
            Correct. And on Feb. 17th we did not yet have a case of community transmission. Fauci, while he has made mistakes, has always been clear that community transmission would be a game changer. He said that again on 2/24, which was either the day (or the day before/after) we had our first such case.

            Originally posted by seer View Post
            And yes Trump is overly optimistic...
            Trump has been continually passing on misinformation. Before 2/24 he could be excused because there was significant confusion, even among the experts. After 2/24 that confusion largely gels...but Trump continues downplaying until 3/17, loosing us the critical three weeks when the virus was "elbowing" towards exponential growth. To this day, he continues spouting misinformation.

            Tell me, Seer, what would your reaction have been if Obama had stood at a podium in the middle of the 2008/2009 pandemic and strongly pushed a medical treatment that his experts were saying, "we don't know if this works yet!" Do you think having a leader with no medical expertise take a stand on a medical decision before the entire nation is a good idea? I don't. It doesn't matter if he is ultimately proven right and a few lives are saved by his action. What matters is that this practice is a formula for chaos that, if regularly practiced, would likely lead to a great deal of loss of life. But that doesn't matter to Trump. His decisions on what to do are rooted in how it will affect him, not the American people.

            So, given his history, here's why I think Trump delayed until the last minute to flip the script. If Trump HAD acted decisively on 2/24, it is possible that this virus would have been nipped in the bud. However, it would have done so at a significant economic cost which is a risk to his re-election. After all, his primary mantra with his base is "the economy, the economy, the economy." And there would have been no PROOF that he nipped it in the bud, because there is no way to prove what WOULD have happened if he had not acted, leaving him vulnerable to accusations that he "over-reacted." We still see this accusation here and in far-right forums. Better for him to delay until it is absolutely clear to most people that there is a serious problem, and then begin acting when he is less vulnerable to being accused of over-reacting. It's a political calculation that puts his own political future ahead of the lives of Americans. He's not the first to do it. But a leader that cannot make the hard choices because they cannot get past themselves is not someone I want in power.
            Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-05-2020, 10:03 AM.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              Because such orders are the job of the state governors. States have autonomy in such things. they know their state better than the federal government does. Some states like North Dakota have such dispersed populations that they might not need a stay-at-home order. It's up to the governor to decide.
              So first, the governors have the power to do it, and under an emergency declaration, so does the president. If the actions of a few governors are endangering the rest of the nation, the president has the duty to act. It's called leadership. He's not acting - and instead the governors are slowly...one by one..finally conceding the need. Alabama and Missouri are the latest to finally acknowledge the need. Unfortunately, time is a major enemy with this virus, so they are closing the doors after a significant part of the herd has already escaped the barn.

              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              MM is right, you guys complain that Trump is a wanna-be dictator in one breath and in the next breath complain because he isn't acting like one.
              I'm not "you guys" and I don't speak for "you guys." If you cannot respond to the arguments I am making, just admit it. Substituting someone else's arguments and flailing away at it is just another form of strawman.
              Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-05-2020, 09:59 AM.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                as long as they actually work, that is.
                That statement would be true for any ventilator from anywhere, including the 170 nonfunctional ventilators the Trump administration sent to California.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Yep. if you are debt free, it makes it a lot easier to live on less.
                  Which is why I said that the biggest source of economic stress on American families is debt, but years of aggressive marketing have conditioned us to believe that debt is not only normal but even necessary. Not many people realize it, but your credit rating is really a measure of your willingness to tolerate debt (Dave Ramsey calls it the "I Love Debt" rating). A high credit rating simply lets lenders know you'll be profitable. If you don't have any debt, or consistently pay off your debt (meaning you pay little or no interest) then your credit rating will drop.
                  Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-05-2020, 10:15 AM.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    That seems very low for a double-nought spy.
                    It’s the perfect cover.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Because such orders are the job of the state governors. States have autonomy in such things. they know their state better than the federal government does. Some states like North Dakota have such dispersed populations that they might not need a stay-at-home order. It's up to the governor to decide.

                      MM is right, you guys complain that Trump is a wanna-be dictator in one breath and in the next breath complain because he isn't acting like one.
                      N. Dakota-186 confirmed cases since March 11, 3 deaths.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        N. Dakota-186 confirmed cases since March 11, 3 deaths.
                        so they might localize a stay at home order to an infected area, not the whole state where the population density is about 10 people per square mile. Social distancing is a way of life there.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Watching the various News channels, I see Fox concentrating on what people are doing to help, how people are making face shields at home on 3D printers, people praying, people helping each other, what breakthroughs are happening in treating this disease. CNN seems to be just concentrating about how bad everything is, the economy is doomed, Trump isn't doing anything, how we are heading into a great depression, gloom and doom.
                          Apparently Jim "The Hack" Acosta has made it a habit at every White House briefing to ask some variation of "What does it feel like to have blood on your hands?" Even liberal pundits are getting fed up with this childishness.
                          Last edited by Mountain Man; 04-05-2020, 10:25 AM.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            N. Dakota-186 confirmed cases since March 11, 3 deaths.
                            With being in pockets of 35 or less. Ever been out there? Fargo, ND is the largest city (124,000) and contains 17% of the state population. The majority of the state is countryside.
                            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 04-05-2020, 10:27 AM.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              With being in pockets of 35 or less. Ever been out there? Fargo, ND is the largest city (124,000) and contains 17% of the state population. The majority of the state is countryside.
                              I have. Several times. Gotta bunch of relatives in Mandan, outside of Bismarck.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                I have. Several times. Gotta bunch of relatives in Mandan, outside of Bismarck.
                                Most of the Midwest is countryside, with the occasional city in between.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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