Coronavirus Outbreak...

[carpedm9587]

I have made no bones about the fact that I think a $2T stimulus package is a travesty. Here is one of the reasons why. Where there is that kind of money, there will be rampant corruption and malfeasance. NOt to mention it is money we are borrowing from a generation that doesn't even exist yet and cannot speak for itself. Meanwhile, we have an occupant of the Oval Office fighting tooth and nail to undermine oversight. Little doubt it is to ensure that significant amounts of the money can be shoveled to his cronies, supporters, and to enrich himself.

Yuck...

Whatever happened to fiscal discipline and accountability?

[Sparko]

It's about the people who elect Trump.

well those people will still be here even if Trump doesn't get re-elected, so the actual problem is Trump.

[carpedm9587]

well those people will still be here even if Trump doesn't get re-elected, so the actual problem is Trump.

Yes - they will - but if Trump does not get elected, it is because the majority of us reject what he stands for. I can live with that. No place is perfect. And I can live with it even better if he is shown the door with overwhelming numbers! Most importantly, the damage he is doing will come to an end (mostly) and we can begin the process of repair.

If he gets back in, however, the majority of this country is putting their vote behind immorality and corruption. That is not a country I want to live in. And the damage by the end of four more years will not be repairable in my lifetime.

So Trump is definitely a factor in this equation - but it is more about the people and the long term consequences of the decision. It is also about my not wanting to spend the next four years continuing to be embarrassed for my country. I would rather find a country I can be proud of.

[Sparko]

Yes - they will - but if Trump does not get elected, it is because the majority of us reject what he stands for. I can live with that. No place is perfect. And I can live with it even better if he is shown the door with overwhelming numbers! Most importantly, the damage he is doing will come to an end (mostly) and we can begin the process of repair.

If he gets back in, however, the majority of this country is putting their vote behind immorality and corruption. That is not a country I want to live in. And the damage by the end of four more years will not be repairable in my lifetime.

So Trump is definitely a factor in this equation - but it is more about the people and the long term consequences of the decision. It is also about my not wanting to spend the next four years continuing to be embarrassed for my country. I would rather find a country I can be proud of.

sounds to me it still all boils down to Trump.

But hey, I hope you find a great place to live. I wouldn't mind retiring in Germany myself. I have family over there and I love the food and culture.

[Mountain Man]

I think you're confusing shrewdness with corruption. Trump, being the bombastic blowhard he is, doesn't cover up his dirt like his predecessors did. No potus has not been corrupt because they're in a corrupt system and that system forces their hand. I can't remember a president who came after whistleblowers like Obama did, the "transparency" president, but it's not talked about much because he was covert about it (not the least of which he also had the MSM on his side to cover his deeds). If you don't like America, you could always go live with your authoritarian atheist buddies in china. I'm sure you'll have a human rights blast.

And part of the reason the MSM covered for Obama is because he threatened reporters with retaliatory IRS audits, wiretapped phones and email accounts, and prison sentences if they ever did anything that displeased him.

And yet we're supposed to believe that Trump is the tyrant simply for calling out the media for their lies.

[carpedm9587]

sounds to me it still all boils down to Trump.

You've made that clear. If that's how it seems to you - it's fine with me. In the end, Trump is (for me) just a symptom. He's not the cause. Trump will be Trump regardless what anyone does. It takes the people to elevate a "Trump" to the Oval Office. That is the basic problem.

But hey, I hope you find a great place to live. I wouldn't mind retiring in Germany myself. I have family over there and I love the food and culture.

Hopefully, I won't need to. I'm still holding out hope for my fellow citizens. I optimistically believe the majority will step up and do the right thing. But we'll have to wait until the evening of 11/3 to see.

[seanD]

Whatever happened to fiscal discipline and accountability?

That shipped sailed after 2008.

[Leonhard]

That shipped sailed after 2008.

You believe George W. Bush was fiscally responsible?

[carpedm9587]

That shipped sailed after 2008.

It shouldn't have sailed for the Republicans. That was one of the things I was more aligned with them on than I was with the Democrats. But now it seems neither party cares one whit about it.


It seems the norm has become "protect my seat at all costs" and too many people have abandoned any semblance of going to Washington to do the job. Right now, that is especially true of the Republican party - who are falling in lockstep behind the Trump base - following instead of making even an attempt to lead.

[carpedm9587]

You believe George W. Bush was fiscally responsible?

IMO, the last fiscally responsible president we had was Carter. Unfortunately, he was a pretty weak president overall, so it didn't lead to much.

[seanD]

You believe George W. Bush was fiscally responsible?

Absolutely not. But his cabinet was full of warmongers, so no one is under any illusion there. Pretty much everyone, left and right, agree (for the most part) that that was a mess, fiscal and otherwise. Everyone got onboard the the spending gravy train in 2008, and it's been that way ever since.

[Leonhard]

Absolutely not. But his cabinet was full of warmongers, so no one is under any illusion there. Pretty much everyone, left and right, agree (for the most part) that that was a mess, fiscal and otherwise.

To be frank I'm not sure about the presidents prior to that either, I mean didn't Reagan basically start the trend of deficit spending, just throwing money at the military giving them everything they pointed at, and things they didn't point at?

[Sparko]

IMO, the last fiscally responsible president we had was Carter. Unfortunately, he was a pretty weak president overall, so it didn't lead to much.

He led us into a recession.

[Leonhard]

He led us into a recession.

The one caused in part by the oil crisis of 1979?

[Sparko]

The one caused in part by the oil crisis of 1979?

as mossy says, "Yuh!"

He was a weak president. He was too nice. Basically I feel about Carter the opposite of how I feel about Trump. Trump is a lousy person, but has done well as President as far as the economy goes. Carter is a great person, but a lousy President.