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[carpedm9587]

I'd say 5 or 6, That is scary .. especially wrt immigration and immigrants.

Yeah - my thought exactly.

[carpedm9587]

Or maybe, getting a straight answer out of you is like trying to nail jello to a wall.

Pix, you seem to be in full flame mode this morning, largely aimed at that Carpe Boogeyman caricature you've created in your mind. I'm going to leave you to it and go make a nice puzzle! I'll check in later. Maybe you'll have cooled down a bit and be ready to engage in a discussion with a bit more civility.

Have a good one!

[oxmixmudd]

“I won’t say that Trump will commit genocide, but I will draw comparison saying he’s close!”

Ever the artful dodger...

Ever the seeker of truth up against a person that demands the answer to her questions always be 'yes' or 'no', regardless of whether or not the question has a yes or no answer.

[Mountain Man]

It appears you still have not understood that your approach is contradictory...

That you apparently feel the need to find contradictions where none exist is your problem, not mine. For one thing, I do not share your belief that biases are an infinite regress. Perhaps my mistake was thinking that everybody is capable of honestly assessing themselves? Surely this isn't some unique skill that I possess.

[Mountain Man]

There is a list by Genocide Watch of the 10 stages of Genocide. My assessment is that Trump is at Stage 6. I'd be curious to know where you put him.

Note...being at Stage 6 does not necessarily mean you are going to Stage 10. But it does mean you have begun to create an environment that makes Stage 10 more likely.

I'd say 5 or 6, That is scary .. especially wrt immigration and immigrants.

I'll say it again, you guys are absolutely bonkers.

That you seriously think we're halfway to becoming another Nazi Germany, let alone that we're even anywhere close to being on the path, reveals your profound ignorance of history and an inability to think rationally.

[oxmixmudd]

I'll say it again, you guys are absolutely bonkers.

That you seriously think we're halfway to becoming another Nazi Germany, let alone that we're even anywhere close to being on the path, reveals your profound ignorance of history and an inability to think rationally.

That is not what we are saying MM. But the truth is, WRT immigrants Trump has already climbed halfway up that ladder. And that is scary - or should be.

No-one should ignore the warning signs for that sort of a progression. No-one. It has happened all too often in our world, and fools ignore it. "This could not happen here" was part of how Hitler was able to do what he did. It can ALWAYS happen here, that is THE lesson of the holocaust. And we must ALWAYS be vigilant in looking out for the warning signs in society and leadership, and speaking out where the momentum in our society and/or our leadership is headed the wrong way. "Never Again" is not possible when people deceive themselves with the words "No way that could happen here".

Go read the list. And while you do that, remember the number of people that have died because people said "no way that could happen here".

[carpedm9587]

That is not what we are saying MM. But the truth is, WRT immigrants Trump has already climbed halfway up that ladder. And that is scary - or should be.

No-one should ignore the warning signs for that sort of a progression. No-one. It has happened all too often in our world, and fools ignore it. "This could not happen here" was part of how Hitler was able to do what he did. It can ALWAYS happen here, that is THE lesson of the holocaust. And we must ALWAYS be vigilant in looking out for the warning signs in society and leadership, and speaking out where the momentum in our society and/or our leadership is headed the wrong way. "Never Again" is not possible with people deceive themselves with the words "No way that could happen here".

EGGxactly!

I'm sure the citizens of late 1920s and early 1930s Germany had no idea they were on a train that would take them to Auschwitz and WWII within a decade or so.

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."


ETA: Don't know who said that, though it has been attributed to Jefferson. And it is grammatically messed up. It should either be, ""Eternal vigilance is the price for liberty" or "Eternal vigilance is the cost of liberty."

[lilpixieofterror]

Umm...that WAS my answer. When I don't know, "I don't know" is the response. I have no idea if Trump would commit genocide if given the means. That in and of itself is not a compliment to Trump. If you asked me the same question about Obama, Bush (I or II), Clinton, Reagan, Macron, Trudeau, Merkel, or any number of current and past world leaders, my answer would have been "I sincerely doubt it."

Funny thing is, if I ask many in the right, the same question dealing with known liberals, you’d get a response that isn’t much different than yours about Trump. See, it’s not enough anymore for the opposition to have views and opinions that you don’t agree with, they have to be somehow evil.

[carpedm9587]

Funny thing is, if I ask many in the right, the same question dealing with known liberals, you’d get a response that isn’t much different than yours about Trump. See, it’s not enough anymore for the opposition to have views and opinions that you don’t agree with, they have to be somehow evil.

And this matters because...?

ETA: FYI, Trump is not "more bad than good by far" because he promotes policies I disagree with. That position is apparently held by the Boogeyman Carpe caricature you have created, not me. Trump is "more bad than good" because that is the proportion I see in his words and actions in terms of moral issues - not public policy. With the possible exception of McConnell, I can think of no other Republican or U.S. office holder I have that view about.

[lilpixieofterror]

Ever the seeker of truth up against a person that demands the answer to her questions always be 'yes' or 'no', regardless of whether or not the question has a yes or no answer.

Thinking Trump is a few steps away from genocide, without coming out and saying it, is crazy. Funny thing is, I’ve known quite a few right wingers that think Obama or Clinton are equally capable of doing great evil deeds. See, it isn’t enough to disagree with the opinions of your opposition anymore, they have to be evil or turning a blind eye to evil. I find you and Carp as insane as I find people saying Obama and Clinton are plotting mass evil acts, on their own. Just two sides, of the same exact coin. No different, but think they are completely different. Always seeing greater evil, in their opponents.

[Mountain Man]

That is not what we are saying MM.

That is exactly what you're saying. carpe links to a site presenting a list of the ten steps a country would need to follow in order to implement a Hitler-like genocide policy. You and carpe believe that the US under Trump has taken half of those steps, meaning that you believe that we are half-way to implementing a Hitler-like genocide policy.

However, it's worth noting that the list presented by Genocide Watch is broad and generalized to the point that you could apply it to any presidential administration in the last hundred years and convince yourself that the United States was "just that close" to becoming the next Nazi Germany. It's like a Rorschach Test that says far more about your own paranoid psyche than it does about the United States.

In summary, you guys are absolutely bonkers.

[lilpixieofterror]

And this matters because...?

ETA: FYI, Trump is not "more bad than good by far" because he promotes policies I disagree with. That position is apparently held by the Boogeyman Carpe caricature you have created, not me. Trump is "more bad than good" because that is the proportion I see in his words and actions in terms of moral issues - not public policy. With the possible exception of McConnell, I can think of no other Republican or U.S. office holder I have that view about.

It matters because it isn’t enough for you to see your opponents as mostly honest, but disagree with your opinions and views. They have to be bad people or plotting evil things. I’m sure you really want to believe I created a ‘caricature’ but I didn’t. Trump is no Hitler and even my crazy neighbor didn’t believe most Democrats were evil, only Obama and a handful of others. Again, same coin, different sides.

[lilpixieofterror]

That is exactly what you're saying. carpe links to a site presenting a list of the ten steps a country would need to follow in order to implement a Hitler-like genocide policy. You and carpe believe that the US under Trump has taken half of those steps, meaning that you believe that we are half-way to implementing a Hitler-like genocide policy.

However, it's worth noting that the list presented by Genocide Watch is broad and generalized to the point that you could apply it to any presidential administration in the last hundred years and convince yourself that the United States was "just that close" to becoming the next Nazi Germany. It's like a Rorschach Test that says far more about your own paranoid psyche than it does about the United States.

In summary, you guys are absolutely bonkers.

My crazy neighbor thought the same thing. Carp and Oxi think they are different, but they’re not. Change their wording from Trump to Obama, change a few minor details, they become right wing nut jobs. Same coin, different sides.

[carpedm9587]

It matters because it isn’t enough for you to see your opponents as mostly honest, but disagree with your opinions and views.

I see almost all of my political opponents/adversaries in exactly this light.

They have to be bad people or plotting evil things.

Only two that I know of - because the evidence tells me that is their nature.

I’m sure you really want to believe I created a ‘caricature’ but I didn’t.

I'm sure you really want to believe that you haven't created a caricature, but you really did...

Trump is no Hitler and even my crazy neighbor didn’t believe most Democrats were evil, only Obama and a handful of others. Again, same coin, different sides.

Since I have never said "Trump is a Hitler," you are back to arguing with the Boogeyman Carpe caricature you have created in your own mind. I'll leave you to it.

[lilpixieofterror]

I see almost all of my political opponents/adversaries in exactly this light.

So did my crazy neighbor, your point? You have your villain (Trump), his men (McConnell, Barr, etc), and the fodder (Trump’s voters). Again, you’re no different. Same coin, different side.

Only two that I know of - because the evidence tells me that is their nature.

No, that’s what your opinion tells you. Again, Crazy right wingers say the same thing. Same coin, different sides.

I'm sure you really want to believe that you haven't created a caricature, but you really did...

Nope, you sound just like my crazy neighbor did. He had his villain (Obama), his men (Holder, Clinton, etc) and fodder (Obama’s voters). Same coin, different sides.

Since I have never said "Trump is a Hitler," you are back to arguing with the Boogeyman Carpe caricature you have created in your own mind. I'll leave you to it.

Nah, you just said:

Trump is as capable of doing evil things.
That Trump is making steps towards genocide.
That you will move, if Trump wins again.

Nope, totally different!