Coronavirus Outbreak...

[carpedm9587]

I hope you guys are taking this seriously. Social distancing will stop it, we all have to participate, stop going to bars, restaurants, cinema, on buses, trains, planes, etc.
The people in ITU’s now were infected two weeks ago. The medics are going down too. It is hard to imagine anything worse.

We are - sort of. There are a lot of people who are stuck in their homes and lack support for the basics of life. My wife and I are on a list to help run necessary errands for these people. We're taking all precautions as we do so, but people who need meds still need meds - and some need food. But we got the basic materials to make homemade sanitizer, are wiping down all surfaces before we touch them, keeping the 6 foot separation (more when possible), and avoiding direct contact.

Please don't forget neighbors that may need help.

[Sparko]

Trump ALWAYS seeks to shift the blame. If it is good - he takes credit. If it is bad - he finds someone to blame. That has been his hallmark not only for his entire presidency, but also his entire career, AFAICT. It is his MOP.

On 11/3 - we can end it!

Prediction: If this crisis is over, Trump will get the credit and be reelected. If it is ongoing it is unlikely that the American people will want to switch presidents mid crisis, meaning someone new has to get up to speed, choose a new cabinet etc, and Trump will be reelected.

[carpedm9587]

Prediction: If this crisis is over, Trump will get the credit and be reelected. If it is ongoing it is unlikely that the American people will want to switch presidents mid crisis, meaning someone new has to get up to speed, choose a new cabinet etc, and Trump will be reelected.

Prediction: If this crisis is over, the economy will still be in the tank and those who hate Trump will still hate him. His mismanagement will be highlighted in many more ads like this one and many unnecessary deaths put at his door and he will not be re-elected. If the crisis is still going, and the economy is in the tank, and he continues his lies and mismanagement, the election will be an actual landslide (not his pretend 2016 one) against him.

So now we wait and see...

[carpedm9587]

Here's an interesting little tidbit. If you look at the data here, many of the countries with the lowest death rates are the countries with a socialistic, single-payer healthcare model.

Now isn't THAT interesting...

[Sparko]

Here's an interesting little tidbit. If you look at the data here, many of the countries with the lowest death rates are the countries with a socialistic, single-payer healthcare model.

Now isn't THAT interesting...

um what? Have you looked at Italy?

[seer]

"Can We Hate China Now" does not make that distinction. It lumps the people and the government into one pot. It's a poorly worded title that leaves the wrong impression.

Don't be a dishonest twit Carp. My OP in that thread explained exactly who I was speaking of.

[Sparko]

Here's an interesting little tidbit. If you look at the data here, many of the countries with the lowest death rates are the countries with a socialistic, single-payer healthcare model.

Now isn't THAT interesting...

ScreenHunter_.jpg

[oxmixmudd]

no it isn't - you have Japanese, Korean, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. When someone says China, they are referring to the country.

Amongst those that a prone to hate, there is little differentiation. Hence the attacks on people from Japan, Korea, Tailand, Vietnam etc as a consequence of this sort of rhetoric about the coronavirus.

Seer said. "Can we hate CHINA now," not "asians"

CHINA is also 1.4 billion people. It is also a large geographical location.

And unfortunately, without making clear the difference, there is a clear implication of the people which is at least as strong as the country or its government. In fact, since the government is a subset of its people, without defining the target, you include the people. Sorry - there is no excuse for not making clear the target of the title is the oppressive communist government and NOT the people and/or the culture of china - without clarification, that is the primary meaning.

And unfortunately, hate is often not an emotion that is well controlled or finds rational limits in its expression.

No - it is NOT ok to hate CHINA now.

This is just a straw man for you to burn. Can't we stop this kind of petty crap when we should all be working together?

Petty crap is arguing for post after post about whether or not every single last microbe is eliminated by wiping down a grocery cart. "Can we hate CHINA now" is asking to be able to hate 1.4 billion people on account of whatever mistakes were made in trying to handle the Wuhan outbreak.

That is NOT petty.

You want to work together? Really? That is why you are challenging me about encouraging people not to focus on hating China over this virus? We don't need that sort of rhetoric right now. And all I'm doing is saying "We don't need that sort of hateful rhetoric right now".

Consider: A person says "Stop encouraging hatred" and that gets twisted into

"Stop creating division by asking people to stop encouraging hatred"

[lilpixieofterror]

Amongst those that a prone to hate, there is little differentiation. Hence the attacks on people from Japan, Korea, Tailand, Vietnam etc as a consequence of this sort of rhetoric about the coronavirus.



CHINA is also 1.4 billion people. It is also a large geographical location.

And unfortunately, without making clear the difference, there is a clear implication of the people which is at least as strong as the country or its government. In fact, since the government is a subset of its people, without defining the target, you include the people. Sorry - there is no excuse for not making clear the target of the title is the oppressive communist government and NOT the people and/or the culture of china - without clarification, that is the primary meaning.

And unfortunately, hate is often not an emotion that is well controlled or finds rational limits in its expression.

No - it is NOT ok to hate CHINA now.



Petty crap is arguing for post after post about whether or not every single last microbe is eliminated by wiping down a grocery cart. "Can we hate CHINA now" is asking to be able to hate 1.4 billion people on account of whatever mistakes were made in trying to handle the Wuhan outbreak.

That is NOT petty.

You want to work together? Really? That is why you are challenging me about encouraging people not to focus on hating China over this virus? We don't need that sort of rhetoric right now. And all I'm doing is saying "We don't need that sort of hateful rhetoric right now".

Consider: A person says "Stop encouraging hatred" and that gets twisted into

"Stop creating division by asking people to stop encouraging hatred"

“Some people are stupid, so we can’t call it the same thing the media has been using for months because TRUMP!!!!”

Wow, TDS truly rots the brain.

[firstfloor]

Take a look at the curve at the bottom of this graphic:
https://infogram.com/coronavirus-inf...h7z2l9r3ndl2ow

[oxmixmudd]

Jim - please be careful. Your use of "they" buys right into the Trump narrative: casting all Chinese as complicit in the spread of this virus. There is a difference between the Chinese people and the Chinese government. Laying blame for mismanagement of this outbreak at the feet of the Chinese government is no more/less a problem then laying blame at Trump's door for his multi-week (and ongoing) mismanagement. Both have a lot to account for. But the Chinese people are not complicit in this. Indeed, many made the effort to get the word out, or we probably wouldn't have had any of the information about the outbreak until it showed up in other countries.

Fair enough. I am focussed on trying to differentiate between government and people, and I agree with you - and have been advocating - that the finger pointing at the chinese government handling of this leads right back to our own governments bungled response.

That is not to say that what the Chinese government did was not bad. It was bad. But then again, so is what Trump has done in trying to play it down and dragging his feet and not rebuking those news outlets that sold a whole lot of misinformation in their attempts to support his ignorance.

I believe Trumps actions are based on ignorantly trying to preserve those elements that he believes will get him re-elected. I don't see that as any less immoral a motivation for misleading the public and trying to hide information about the virus than the elements that motivated the communist government of china to try to hide the information about the virus there in its early stages.

The problem is not in identifying both sets of actions as bad and laying that blame at the feet of each government. The problem is excusing one set of bad actions by trying to make a scape goat out of the other.

[rogue06]

Here's an interesting little tidbit. If you look at the data here, many of the countries with the lowest death rates are the countries with a socialistic, single-payer healthcare model.

Now isn't THAT interesting...

What about Italy, which is often held up as a prime example for how state run socialist-style health care works (WHO ranks it as the second best in the world)? And now they've become the poster child for strict rationing of virtually everything and the sort of treatment Obama envisioned like when he told a woman during a 2009 Town Hall that her mother might be "better off" just taking a painkiller than getting a new pacemaker.

[firstfloor]

What about Italy, which is often held up as a prime example for how state run socialist-style health care (WHO ranks it as the second best in the world)? And now they've become the poster child for strict rationing of virtually everything and the sort of treatment Obama envisioned like when he told a woman during a 2009 Town Hall that her mother might be "better off" just taking a painkiller than getting a new pacemaker.

The USA is on the brink of stealing Italy's virus-crown. This is not good.

[Sparko]

Amongst those that a prone to hate, there is little differentiation. Hence the attacks on people from Japan, Korea, Tailand, Vietnam etc as a consequence of this sort of rhetoric about the coronavirus.



CHINA is also 1.4 billion people. It is also a large geographical location.

And unfortunately, without making clear the difference, there is a clear implication of the people which is at least as strong as the country or its government. In fact, since the government is a subset of its people, without defining the target, you include the people. Sorry - there is no excuse for not making clear the target of the title is the oppressive communist government and NOT the people and/or the culture of china - without clarification, that is the primary meaning.

Seer is known for creating clickbait titles. If you actually bothered to READ the OP and his following posts you will see he was talking about the country and the government. He told you that, others have told you that. If you insist on continuing to accuse him of meaning hating asians, then you are just attacking a straw man.

Petty crap is arguing for post after post about whether or not every single last microbe is eliminated by wiping down a grocery cart.

agreed.

"Can we hate CHINA now" is asking to be able to hate 1.4 billion people on account of whatever mistakes were made in trying to handle the Wuhan outbreak.

That is NOT petty.

it is petty when that isn't what he was saying and you keep repeating it despite being told that by him, me and others who have actually read his thread.

You want to work together? Really? That is why you are challenging me about encouraging people not to focus on hating China over this virus? We don't need that sort of rhetoric right now. And all I'm doing is saying "We don't need that sort of hateful rhetoric right now".

Consider: A person says "Stop encouraging hatred" and that gets twisted into

"Stop creating division by asking people to stop encouraging hatred"

You keep misrepresenting what Seer said and meant in order to attack him. That is wrong. That is picking a fight.

[rogue06]

A bit of other info. By February 25th, China's reports of the spread within its borders was showing signs of tapering off. The world numbers, however, were showing and average of 13.21% growth per day for the previous 3 weeks and were already at over 2,800 cases. The U.S. growth rate over three weeks was an average of 10.21% and we had 57 active cases. Medical leaders around the world had been sounding the alarm for several weeks. The official declaration of a pandemic came from the WHO two weeks later.

Most experts take any numbers coming out of China with more than just a grain of salt. And given their campaign of spreading misinformation about this that is a good decision. And that campaign wasn't just at the start but continues what with the claim that the coronavirus originated in the U.S. being just one example. They've been planting numerous false stories on social media as well, several of which have been repeated here on Tweb such as the one pushed by DivineOb:

Ok, I give up. For some reason the tweet only displays intermittently. Bottom line is American children are being stabbed out of xenophobia because of the insistence on calling Coronavirus "Chinese virus".

But hey, you and your fellow travelers have kowtowed to their demands of disassociating them from the Chicom coronavirus and some in the media are parroting their line of how magnificently they've responded to this^[1] so I guess nobody should be surprised that you'll swallow anything they tell you.




1. I wonder if that includes deliberately concealing what was going on, destroying evidence like lab samples and tests in order to continue hiding it and "disappearing" those in China who spoke out (with some of them now dead), as well as refusing outside assistance and refusing to share the virus so it could be studied. Likely that can't be mentioned since that's obvious racist and xenophobic.